define running a red light?

[EK1]

hey,

just wondering whats classified as running a red light? say if i drive past a traffic light halfway and it turns red does that mean that technically i ran a red light or would it be not running a red light? thanks

[lateralus]

technically, your rear wheels must have passed over the solid white line after the lights have turned red. so therefore, entering the intersection.

however red light "safety" cameras have weight sensors up to 1 metre after the solid white line. as soon as weight is detected in that area when the lights are red: flash - your gone.

road traffic cops see it differently. depends on a: how **** a day theyve had, and b: if it was an unsafe move (eg. plenty of room to stop in time)

Edited November 20, 2010 by lateralus

[stevo1210]

if turns red when you're in the middle of the road you won't get caught. If however any of your wheels are still on the white stop line as it turns red then you're screwed.

[SuperDave]

If spotted by an officer (not a camera) entering the intersection on an orange light and they deem you could have stopped in time, in a safe manner (no locked wheels etc) then that is running a red. As for the camera, no idea but I have only ever seen the flash go off for people who enter the intersection once the light is red.

[Steven]

If spotted by an officer (not a camera) entering the intersection on an orange light and they deem you could have stopped in time, in a safe manner (no locked wheels etc) then that is running a red. As for the camera, no idea but I have only ever seen the flash go off for people who enter the intersection once the light is red.

Technically that is running a yellow, which carries the same penalty as running a red.

[eviltwin]

If spotted by an officer (not a camera) entering the intersection on an orange light and they deem you could have stopped in time, in a safe manner (no locked wheels etc) then that is running a red. As for the camera, no idea but I have only ever seen the flash go off for people who enter the intersection once the light is red.

Technically that is running a yellow, which carries the same penalty as running a red.

Huh?

[Steven]

Going through a yellow light when you could have stopped, and running a red are 2 different offences, however have the same penalty ($300 and 3 points, in QLD).

There are literally a dozen different charges for yellow and red lights, so there are a variety of answers to the original question. Basically, it depends who caught you, a camera or an officer.

[eviltwin]

ahh i got you , such as the advert a few years back where old mate gasses up the VR commo through the yellow and smacks into someone that was trying to turn... on my way to work (9:45PM) and home again (6:00AM) i see someone get caught by a red light cam once a day usually , it's crazy!

[SuperDave]

If spotted by an officer (not a camera) entering the intersection on an orange light and they deem you could have stopped in time, in a safe manner (no locked wheels etc) then that is running a red. As for the camera, no idea but I have only ever seen the flash go off for people who enter the intersection once the light is red.

Technically that is running a yellow, which carries the same penalty as running a red.

I was just summarising for ease, but yes that is correct.

[.gorgz]

as long as your under 0.5 seconds of running a red you should be fine. (forgive the pun)

I got fined a few months back for running a red where it said on the infringement notice 'duration of red light: 0.6s'

I can't even blink that fast, but all in all, if you think you've been caught, then theres a good chance you have been

[Kenshin X]

if you think you've been caught, then theres a good chance you have been

thats bs, i always think i got caught but NEVER have bahahha... never say never -______________-

[.gorgz]

if you think you've been caught, then theres a good chance you have been

thats bs, i always think i got caught but NEVER have bahahha... never say never -______________-

haha you mean like the GOR recon run a while back, right Duy

[Azza]

Most people sound like they have replied based on personal thought as opposed to actual knowlede...Try looking at the legislation, and the effort used to locate it online is actually less than sitting there making up stories.

You can do one of 2 things. Either research the Road Use Act for your state, or contact your State Police for information.

In Queensland there is:

Section 56 of the Transport Operations (Road Use Management Road Rules) Regulation 1999

Part 6 Traffic lights, traffic arrows and twin red lights

Division 1 Obeying traffic lights and traffic arrows

56 Stopping on a red traffic light or arrow

(1) A driver approaching or at traffic lights showing a red traffic light—

(.a.) must stop—

(i) if there is a stop line at or near the traffic lights—as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the stop line; or

(ii) if there is a stop here on red signal sign at or near the traffic lights, but no stop line—as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the sign; or

(iii) if there is no stop line or stop here on red signal sign at or near the traffic lights—as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the nearest or only traffic lights; and

(.b.) must not proceed until—

(i) the traffic lights change to green or flashing yellow; or

(ii) a green or flashing yellow traffic arrow is showing, if the driver is turning in the direction indicated by the arrow.

Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

57 Stopping for a yellow traffic light or arrow

(1) A driver who is approaching, or at, traffic lights showing a yellow traffic light—

(.a.) must stop—

(i) if there is a stop line at or near the traffic lights and the driver can stop safely before reaching the stop line—as near as practicable to, and before reaching, the stop line; or

(ii) if there is no stop line at or near the traffic lights and the driver can stop safely before reaching the traffic lights—as near as practicable to, and before reaching, the nearest traffic lights; or

(iii) if the traffic lights are at an intersection and the driver can not stop safely under subparagraph (i) or (ii), but can stop safely before entering the intersection—before entering the intersection; and

(.b.) must not proceed until the traffic lights—

(i) change to green or flashing yellow; or

(ii) show no traffic light.

Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

(2) A driver who is approaching, or at, traffic arrows showing a yellow traffic arrow, and turning in the direction indicated by the arrow—

(.a.) must stop—

(i) if there is a stop line at or near the traffic arrows and the driver can stop safely before reaching the stop line—as near as practicable to, and before reaching, the stop line; or

(ii) if there is no stop line at or near the traffic arrows and the driver can stop safely before reaching the traffic arrows—as near as practicable to, and before reaching, the nearest traffic arrows; or

(iii) if the traffic arrows are at an intersection and the driver can not stop safely under subparagraph (i) or (ii), but can stop safely before entering the intersection—before entering the intersection; and

(.b.) must not proceed until the traffic arrows—

(i) change to green or flashing yellow; or

(ii) show no traffic arrow.

Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

(3) If the traffic lights or arrows are at an intersection and the driver can not stop safely under subsection (1) or (2) and enters the intersection, the driver must leave the intersection as soon as the driver can do so safely.

Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

(4) If there is a bicycle storage area before any traffic lights referred to in subsection (1) or (2), a reference to the stop line in subsection (1)(a) or (2)(a)—

(.a.) in the case of a driver of a motor vehicle, is a reference to the first stop line that the driver comes, or came, to in approaching the lights; or

(.b.) in the case of a rider of a bicycle, is a reference to the stop line that is nearest to the intersection.

OR MORE SIMPLY PUT

Qld Police Information Sheet

2. HOW DO RED LIGHT CAMERAS WORK?

Red Light Cameras operate automatically day or night. A Red Light Camera is connected to traffic lights and is activated when a vehicle crosses the white stop line. The camera is programmed to take photographs of the rear of any vehicle travelling over the stop line or entering the intersection after the lights have turned red. The camera will not be triggered by vehicles crossing the stop line on amber or green lights.

[lateralus]

nice cut and paste job on the road rules Azza, but i believe the question the OP is presenting is not how to stop at a traffic light, but how you can be prosecuted on it and how it is interpreted as "running the red light".

legislation is open to interpretation, its not black and white.

[Azza]

nice cut and paste job on the road rules Azza, but i believe the question the OP is presenting is not how to stop at a traffic light, but how you can be prosecuted on it and how it is interpreted as "running the red light".

legislation is open to interpretation, its not black and white.

No need to interpret mate, just read it....it's there in black and white...

Let me spell it out a little clearer for you....

Part 6 Div 1 S.57 Stopping for a yellow traffic light or arrow

(1) A driver who is approaching, or at, traffic lights showing a yellow traffic light

(.a.) must stop

(i)

if there is a stop line at or near the traffic lights and the driver can stop safely before reaching the stop lineas near as practicable to, and before reaching, the stop line;

In plain english, this means:

1) If the light is RED then you MUST stop,

2) If the light is YELLOW then you MUST stop if you can do so safely

I am not sure what you could not interpret there.

[lateralus]

as a healthy discussion without any smug ...'s, you would be amazed at how road rules can be interpreted and twisted in specific circumstances, regardless of how simple, or black and white, they may appear... :P

its always determined on its merits, and never exactly by the book, especially if it turns into a **** fight through the courts ;)

[Azza]

I agree, and as a Military Policeman and having plans to be a civilian policeman (together with a large number for friends already in the service), I will guarentee you that there are bucketloads of instances where the interpretation of the law by the policeman at the time depends on 2 things, firstly his mood of the day and secondly, the attitude test.

However, in saying that, if the basic principles of the legislation are adhered to, and you dont give the officer any grief, then there shouldnt be any issues.

Being seen to speed up through the yellow light, is statistically the main reason people will be done for running the intersection. In a vast majority of those times, the driver when pulled over will gob off about how there was plenty of time, and the light was still yellow ont he other side of the intersection etc etc etc.....then they wonder why the cop the fine.

The best solution, is to keep your mouth shut, cop the minimum ticket he is writing you (if any) then appeal it in court later if you believe you are not in the wrong. Remembering in court, you not only have to prove your innocence on the matter, but the Police Prosecutor has to also prove your guilt, and contrary to popular belief, the judge will not take a Policemans word over the drivers. That is a myth unless you then get to court and gob off, then the judge will most certainly find against you.

However in saying all of that, if the basic thought of slowing on yellow is applied (without locking the wheels, as this is deemed unsafe) then you really should never have an issue, and if you do, it will be because you have probably drawn some other attention to yourself, ie loud exhaust, speeding, driving like a hoon etc...

[Steven]

I agree, and as a Military Policeman and having plans to be a civilian policeman (together with a large number for friends already in the service), I will guarentee you that there are bucketloads of instances where the interpretation of the law by the policeman at the time depends on 2 things, firstly his mood of the day and secondly, the attitude test.

However, in saying that, if the basic principles of the legislation are adhered to, and you dont give the officer any grief, then there shouldnt be any issues.

Being seen to speed up through the yellow light, is statistically the main reason people will be done for running the intersection. In a vast majority of those times, the driver when pulled over will gob off about how there was plenty of time, and the light was still yellow ont he other side of the intersection etc etc etc.....then they wonder why the cop the fine.

The best solution, is to keep your mouth shut, cop the minimum ticket he is writing you (if any) then appeal it in court later if you believe you are not in the wrong. Remembering in court, you not only have to prove your innocence on the matter, but the Police Prosecutor has to also prove your guilt, and contrary to popular belief, the judge will not take a Policemans word over the drivers. That is a myth unless you then get to court and gob off, then the judge will most certainly find against you.

However in saying all of that, if the basic thought of slowing on yellow is applied (without locking the wheels, as this is deemed unsafe) then you really should never have an issue, and if you do, it will be because you have probably drawn some other attention to yourself, ie loud exhaust, speeding, driving like a hoon etc...

My 2 cents here is that if you believe you are not in the wrong, then do not be afraid to inform the intercepting Officer of it - it's perfectly fine to do so as long as you remain courteous and professional. A blatant outright lie is not recommended, but in situations where you have an honest belief that you are not in the wrong then you are actually doing yourself a dis-service by not voicing it.

Reason being if it does go to court, and you bring up this fantastic reason/explanation that would work in your favor the first thing both the prosecutor and the magistrate will want to know is why you didn't inform the issuing officer of this before he wrote the ticket. Although you have a right to silence, in a situation where a Police Officer presents a very comprehensive and accurate brief of evidence to justify writing a ticket and you've just turned up with completely new information that if presented previously may have avoided the whole court process altogether, the magistrate will not look upon you favorably. If however you do present your reasons to the ticketing officer and he writes you a ticket anyway, at least later on down the track you look a look better in court and might even be able to request costs be awarded in your favor.

This is all just from my direct experience with these matters.

[Azza]

I agree with your thoughts Steven, and as you point out, you need to remain courtious and professional. Failing the attitude test is big tick for gaining a ticket for something you may have been able to avoid.

In the Army, Military Police do not actually write a 'fine' so to speak, rather they compile 3 documents. The first is a 'Service Police Infringement Notice' or SPIN. This document mearly gathers all of the information, similar to a civilian infringement notice. This SPIN is signed by the driver not as an admission of guilt, rather as acknowlegement that the offence was detected by Service Police and will be reported.

The second document is a Service Police Report which is usually about 2 or 3 pages outlining who the MP is, what they were doing and under what perameters, such as X road and X time, weather was slightly overcast with good visibility etc etc. This Report then details what offence was detected, with what equipment and what the circumstance were. ie CPL Blogg was detected travelling at 70km/h using an X device where the signposted speed limit was 40km/h.

This document then includes a conclusion and recommendation. It is SOP for an MP to ask for a 'Justified Reason' for speeding. If he tells us he is late for duty and gives a gobful, that all goes in the report verbatim. If he speaks courtiously and professional then this also is noted. There have been situations where a digger has come back from the desert and was advised he is being discharged due to medical & psycological grounds annd was detected doing 50 in a 40 area. He was professional and honest and was sent on his way with a warning. When I first did my training, we had a guy gob off about his CO sending him to do the lunch run and was rude and used a number of swearwords. It all then went into the report.

The third document is called a ROAT (Record of Action Taken). This is a form that the Commanding Officer of the Offenders Unit has to compile to justify his actions. If he reads the Service Police Report and decides the digger needs a fine, or a warning, he does whatever, is accountable and then completes the form and sends it back to the Military Police.

As you can see the attitude test plays a big part.....