Why do new cars have poor visibility and blind spots ?

[jsta]

CarAdvice did a review on all new cars with poor visibility.

The Corolla scores a 3 where the Commodore only 1.

Anyone with a Corolla in here or any new car will kow that the pillars on either side creates

a blind spot especially when going around corners or around round abouts. This must cause more

car accidents.

Most new cars all you see is the front windscreen and impossible to see the front of the car making parking a living hell

and if a car is parked on either side of a thinish road then working out the distance between the two cars is only best guess.

My older 1994 Corolla didn't have any of these problems.

Why do they build them like this. Is it so there are more damage caused to the corners of the car so

they the car companies can make money with constant repairs.

I notice many new cars have scratch marks on the left and right front bumpers.

And I notice I hit the curbs when turning every so often where on my old car I never hit any curbs.

Its to hard to judge the distance between the front of the car and a curb.

When parking now I take up two car spots an dpark n the middle as my car has been hiot a few times by other people

with the same problem.

I've since had cameras installed in the front and rear so when parking I can see the front and rear of the car.

Most times I go out and a similar car is ahead of me I see them go up onto the curb when turning or going around

round abouts.

I've been driving for over 30 years. Never had a single crash but these new cars its only a matter of time.

They've made the pillars wide to fit in the side air bags. Persinally I would prefer no side air bags

and have thin piullars to see better.

[jeffy]

CarAdvice did a review on all new cars with poor visibility.

The Corolla scores a 3 where the Commodore only 1.

Anyone with a Corolla in here or any new car will kow that the pillars on either side creates

a blind spot especially when going around corners or around round abouts. This must cause more

car accidents.

Most new cars all you see is the front windscreen and impossible to see the front of the car making parking a living hell

and if a car is parked on either side of a thinish road then working out the distance between the two cars is only best guess.

My older 1994 Corolla didn't have any of these problems.

Why do they build them like this. Is it so there are more damage caused to the corners of the car so

they the car companies can make money with constant repairs.

I notice many new cars have scratch marks on the left and right front bumpers.

And I notice I hit the curbs when turning every so often where on my old car I never hit any curbs.

Its to hard to judge the distance between the front of the car and a curb.

When parking now I take up two car spots an dpark n the middle as my car has been hiot a few times by other people

with the same problem.

I've since had cameras installed in the front and rear so when parking I can see the front and rear of the car.

Most times I go out and a similar car is ahead of me I see them go up onto the curb when turning or going around

round abouts.

I've been driving for over 30 years. Never had a single crash but these new cars its only a matter of time.

Is this serious ? You say you've been driving over 30 years and you say you take up 2 spots while parking ? With what your corolla ? I mean im not perfect or anything, but dont you use mirrors or anything ? and you notice you hit the curbs ? Really ? 30 years driving experience? It seems to me that you are ranting that you hate your corolla or something. i drive my mums corolla, the only thing i complain about is how high she puts the seat. However i do agree with you that the pillars are pretty big, but i make sure to move my head so i can see.

[Kenshin X]

+1 on the a pillars. Zze is terrible.

[Hiro]

CarAdvice did a review on all new cars with poor visibility.

The Corolla scores a 3 where the Commodore only 1.

Anyone with a Corolla in here or any new car will kow that the pillars on either side creates

a blind spot especially when going around corners or around round abouts. This must cause more

car accidents.

Most new cars all you see is the front windscreen and impossible to see the front of the car making parking a living hell

and if a car is parked on either side of a thinish road then working out the distance between the two cars is only best guess.

My older 1994 Corolla didn't have any of these problems.

Why do they build them like this. Is it so there are more damage caused to the corners of the car so

they the car companies can make money with constant repairs.

I notice many new cars have scratch marks on the left and right front bumpers.

And I notice I hit the curbs when turning every so often where on my old car I never hit any curbs.

Its to hard to judge the distance between the front of the car and a curb.

When parking now I take up two car spots an dpark n the middle as my car has been hiot a few times by other people

with the same problem.

I've since had cameras installed in the front and rear so when parking I can see the front and rear of the car.

Most times I go out and a similar car is ahead of me I see them go up onto the curb when turning or going around

round abouts.

I've been driving for over 30 years. Never had a single crash but these new cars its only a matter of time.

They've made the pillars wide to fit in the side air bags. Persinally I would prefer no side air bags

and have thin piullars to see better.

2 words - crash safety.

Thicker pillars, smaller windows and higher belt-lines increase strength and occupant protection in the event of an accident. And, as you said, aid in the mounting of additional airbags. Exact same reason as to why cars are getting bigger and heavier over time despite improvements in space efficiency, materials and design.

Car manufacturers have to compromise between visibility and occupant safety. By your logic the safest car would be a glass bubble, because you can see everything, yet I shudder to think what would happen if someone ran in to you. Conversely, a tank with slit windows is incredibly safe in an accident, but you can't see anything out the windows. Somewhere in the middle is the best compromise.

Using an older car is not a good idea, because whilst visibility might be much better, crash performance is much worse - your current Corolla might be a 5-star ANCAP car with a visibility rating of 3, but your '94 model might only have a visibility rating of 4 (I have a '97, I'm rather tall and even I can't accurately determine the front or rear of the car without shifting my head and experience) but an ANCAP safety rating of 2 STARS under the current system....that's right 2 whole stars, as safe as a Great Wall or Chery which get slammed in modern reviews for being deathtraps on wheels. At the end of the day, the general public (ie Joe and Mrs Bloggs with 2.5 kids and a dog) want a safe car to protect their family, and can live with minor inconveniences like thick A-pillars and poor reversing visibility (or get workarounds such as reversing sensors/cameras).

I would argue that despite newer cars having worse visibility, accidents are more likely to be caused by the extremely poor level of driver skill in this country, thick A-pillars or not. It only takes a fraction of a second to move your head to check a blind spot, but Little Miss Princess in her cosy new Civic with the music blaring and tapping away on her iPhone is much more likely to hit the kerb or another car when reverse parking because she is off in her own little La-La land. Hell, my wife (with ~6 years driving experience) can reverse-park her 5m long Soarer (as big as a current-model Commodore) with a bonnet a mile long and big thick pillars just as well as I can, it comes more down to skill and awareness than it does vehicle design.

[jsta]

CarAdvice did a review on all new cars with poor visibility.

The Corolla scores a 3 where the Commodore only 1.

Anyone with a Corolla in here or any new car will kow that the pillars on either side creates

a blind spot especially when going around corners or around round abouts. This must cause more

car accidents.

Most new cars all you see is the front windscreen and impossible to see the front of the car making parking a living hell

and if a car is parked on either side of a thinish road then working out the distance between the two cars is only best guess.

My older 1994 Corolla didn't have any of these problems.

Why do they build them like this. Is it so there are more damage caused to the corners of the car so

they the car companies can make money with constant repairs.

I notice many new cars have scratch marks on the left and right front bumpers.

And I notice I hit the curbs when turning every so often where on my old car I never hit any curbs.

Its to hard to judge the distance between the front of the car and a curb.

When parking now I take up two car spots an dpark n the middle as my car has been hiot a few times by other people

with the same problem.

I've since had cameras installed in the front and rear so when parking I can see the front and rear of the car.

Most times I go out and a similar car is ahead of me I see them go up onto the curb when turning or going around

round abouts.

I've been driving for over 30 years. Never had a single crash but these new cars its only a matter of time.

Is this serious ? You say you've been driving over 30 years and you say you take up 2 spots while parking ? With what your corolla ? I mean im not perfect or anything, but dont you use mirrors or anything ? and you notice you hit the curbs ? Really ? 30 years driving experience? It seems to me that you are ranting that you hate your corolla or something. i drive my mums corolla, the only thing i complain about is how high she puts the seat. However i do agree with you that the pillars are pretty big, but i make sure to move my head so i can see.

I have a car cam and can upload many other people doing the same thing.

Look at any new car and you will see marks on the corners of the car.

Everytime I go out and drive I see many others going up over the curbs.

I can take screen grabs if you wish and post them in here with the lic plates edited out.

[jsta]

CarAdvice did a review on all new cars with poor visibility.

The Corolla scores a 3 where the Commodore only 1.

Anyone with a Corolla in here or any new car will kow that the pillars on either side creates

a blind spot especially when going around corners or around round abouts. This must cause more

car accidents.

Most new cars all you see is the front windscreen and impossible to see the front of the car making parking a living hell

and if a car is parked on either side of a thinish road then working out the distance between the two cars is only best guess.

My older 1994 Corolla didn't have any of these problems.

Why do they build them like this. Is it so there are more damage caused to the corners of the car so

they the car companies can make money with constant repairs.

I notice many new cars have scratch marks on the left and right front bumpers.

And I notice I hit the curbs when turning every so often where on my old car I never hit any curbs.

Its to hard to judge the distance between the front of the car and a curb.

When parking now I take up two car spots an dpark n the middle as my car has been hiot a few times by other people

with the same problem.

I've since had cameras installed in the front and rear so when parking I can see the front and rear of the car.

Most times I go out and a similar car is ahead of me I see them go up onto the curb when turning or going around

round abouts.

I've been driving for over 30 years. Never had a single crash but these new cars its only a matter of time.

They've made the pillars wide to fit in the side air bags. Persinally I would prefer no side air bags

and have thin piullars to see better.

2 words - crash safety.

Thicker pillars, smaller windows and higher belt-lines increase strength and occupant protection in the event of an accident. And, as you said, aid in the mounting of additional airbags. Exact same reason as to why cars are getting bigger and heavier over time despite improvements in space efficiency, materials and design.

Car manufacturers have to compromise between visibility and occupant safety. By your logic the safest car would be a glass bubble, because you can see everything, yet I shudder to think what would happen if someone ran in to you. Conversely, a tank with slit windows is incredibly safe in an accident, but you can't see anything out the windows. Somewhere in the middle is the best compromise.

Using an older car is not a good idea, because whilst visibility might be much better, crash performance is much worse - your current Corolla might be a 5-star ANCAP car with a visibility rating of 3, but your '94 model might only have a visibility rating of 4 (I have a '97, I'm rather tall and even I can't accurately determine the front or rear of the car without shifting my head and experience) but an ANCAP safety rating of 2 STARS under the current system....that's right 2 whole stars, as safe as a Great Wall or Chery which get slammed in modern reviews for being deathtraps on wheels. At the end of the day, the general public (ie Joe and Mrs Bloggs with 2.5 kids and a dog) want a safe car to protect their family, and can live with minor inconveniences like thick A-pillars and poor reversing visibility (or get workarounds such as reversing sensors/cameras).

I would argue that despite newer cars having worse visibility, accidents are more likely to be caused by the extremely poor level of driver skill in this country, thick A-pillars or not. It only takes a fraction of a second to move your head to check a blind spot, but Little Miss Princess in her cosy new Civic with the music blaring and tapping away on her iPhone is much more likely to hit the kerb or another car when reverse parking because she is off in her own little La-La land. Hell, my wife (with ~6 years driving experience) can reverse-park her 5m long Soarer (as big as a current-model Commodore) with a bonnet a mile long and big thick pillars just as well as I can, it comes more down to skill and awareness than it does vehicle design.

Then you've not got one of these newer cars. Your own photos of some cars all have thin pillars.

How can not seeing the front or rear of the car be a good thing. Looking around when moving out to another lane all

one sees is the middle pillar blocking most of the viewing area. I hav eto trust my outside mirrors which do cover the blind spot

but they do distort the actual distance a car is behind. It swhy I've installed cameras at the back and front of the car.

More accidents are caused by newer cars not by older ones which sort of makes your theory look a bit wacky.

How is poor visability a good thing. If the pillars were thin there would be less car accidents.

[jeffy]

I have a car cam and can upload many other people doing the same thing.

Look at any new car and you will see marks on the corners of the car.

Everytime I go out and drive I see many others going up over the curbs.

I can take screen grabs if you wish and post them in here with the lic plates edited out.

Upload all you want, i think Hiro is right, its the poor level of driver skill.

[Hiro]

Then you've not got one of these newer cars. Your own photos of some cars all have thin pillars.

I don't OWN a new car. I have DRIVEN plenty of new cars however.

How can not seeing the front or rear of the car be a good thing. Looking around when moving out to another lane all

one sees is the middle pillar blocking most of the viewing area. I hav eto trust my outside mirrors which do cover the blind spot

but they do distort the actual distance a car is behind. It swhy I've installed cameras at the back and front of the car.

More accidents are caused by newer cars not by older ones which sort of makes your theory look a bit wacky.

How is poor visability a good thing. If the pillars were thin there would be less car accidents.

You're twisting my words. I never said that poor visibility is a good thing, I said that a trade-off in visibility is required to ensure adequate crash safety and cost. You could make paper-thin A-pillars out of unobtainium which performs excellently in a crash AND gives you perfect visibility, but you would need to be a millionaire to buy a new car. It is the old "3 desirable options, can only pick 2" problem - you have crash performance/occupant protection, visibility, low cost - pick 2 and the one left over is negatively affected. Personally, I prefer my cars to not cost the earth and not kill me in an accident, so I would accept a trade-off to visibility (especially since it can be corrected - you can't easily strengthen an old car and you can't make an expensive car cheaper, but you can move your head and install blind-spot mirrors/cameras/poles)

As for "most accidents are in newer cars", that is because people BUY new cars. The FCAI reports that 1.112 MILLION new cars were sold in Australia last year, that is one car for every 20 people. Australia's population growth rate is about 1.5%, that means that there are more new cars being sold than there are new people being born - ie there is a turnover in the car population, people get rid of older cars and buy new ones.

As for "mirrors distorting the distance" (I can guarantee that the cameras are distorting the perspective too), there is this thing in your head between your ears called a BRAIN. It interprets things for you, and learns and adjusts to things. If it can't work out that the car that looks far away in the side mirror is only 2m behind you after driving for 30 years (and driving the same car for more than a few months), then you shouldn't be driving.

[jsta]

Then you've not got one of these newer cars. Your own photos of some cars all have thin pillars.

I don't OWN a new car. I have DRIVEN plenty of new cars however.

How can not seeing the front or rear of the car be a good thing. Looking around when moving out to another lane all

one sees is the middle pillar blocking most of the viewing area. I hav eto trust my outside mirrors which do cover the blind spot

but they do distort the actual distance a car is behind. It swhy I've installed cameras at the back and front of the car.

More accidents are caused by newer cars not by older ones which sort of makes your theory look a bit wacky.

How is poor visability a good thing. If the pillars were thin there would be less car accidents.

You're twisting my words. I never said that poor visibility is a good thing, I said that a trade-off in visibility is required to ensure adequate crash safety and cost. You could make paper-thin A-pillars out of unobtainium which performs excellently in a crash AND gives you perfect visibility, but you would need to be a millionaire to buy a new car. It is the old "3 desirable options, can only pick 2" problem - you have crash performance/occupant protection, visibility, low cost - pick 2 and the one left over is negatively affected. Personally, I prefer my cars to not cost the earth and not kill me in an accident, so I would accept a trade-off to visibility (especially since it can be corrected - you can't easily strengthen an old car and you can't make an expensive car cheaper, but you can move your head and install blind-spot mirrors/cameras/poles)

As for "most accidents are in newer cars", that is because people BUY new cars. The FCAI reports that 1.112 MILLION new cars were sold in Australia last year, that is one car for every 20 people. Australia's population growth rate is about 1.5%, that means that there are more new cars being sold than there are new people being born - ie there is a turnover in the car population, people get rid of older cars and buy new ones.

As for "mirrors distorting the distance" (I can guarantee that the cameras are distorting the perspective too), there is this thing in your head between your ears called a BRAIN. It interprets things for you, and learns and adjusts to things. If it can't work out that the car that looks far away in the side mirror is only 2m behind you after driving for 30 years (and driving the same car for more than a few months), then you shouldn't be driving.

You own an old car no doubt but the newer ones badly distort the distance from cars coming up from behind.

A car coming up from behind looks as though its 5 car lengths back when in reality its less tnan a car length.

No camera I know does this.

I'm not the only one saying this. Many other car forums have many people posting about this very same thing.

I'm surprised they get passed fit for sale in Australia.

How can poor visability be safer. That is simply dumb. Its like the NRA in the US saying that its safer to own a gun that not,

simply an argument that makes no sense what so ever.

You don't sell new cars by chance ?

[jsta]

I have a car cam and can upload many other people doing the same thing.

Look at any new car and you will see marks on the corners of the car.

Everytime I go out and drive I see many others going up over the curbs.

I can take screen grabs if you wish and post them in here with the lic plates edited out.

Upload all you want, i think Hiro is right, its the poor level of driver skill.

I have a go pro and sunglass cam and to highlight how poor the visability is when going

around corners I will upload my videos to Youtube so that you can see how poor the visability is.

I'll also upload videos from an older car where there are thin pillars to highlight the difference and put them up as a split

screen on the same corners.

The Corolllas have a double pillar as a triangular corner with a very small window near the outside mirror causing a very ;large frontal blind spot when going into corners. As you will see the blind spot is disturbing and no way around it.

I've never had a single accidejnt in over 30 years of driving and never used car insurance in my life. Its only a matter of time

before another car like mine hits me. I'm extra careful going into corners a lot slower du eto this blind spot.

This blind spot been mentioned in car review sites too.

And how is not seeing any part of the front of the car a good thing. All one sees is the front windscreen.

I'm over 6 feet tall and even if I put my head up near the roof I can't see any part of the front of the car which

has to be an accident waiting to happen. It has to be best guess when parking or going between two objects.

Its bad enough going to get petrol. I think I'm close enough to the bowser to get fuel but when I get out of the car I've

over compensated and I'm nearly 2 metres away from thre petrol pump.

I know many that own these later corollas and all say the same thing. Even have friends with other brands of cars

and they too hav ethe same problem.

One of the helpers we got in for my father said all the cars they use are like this and in the car parks mnost have hot

the side of other cars because they can't see the front of the car.

Almost designed that way on purpose. Designed so that they can make money from spare parts.

That is the world we live in. Everything designed to fail.

[jeffy]

Dont get me wrong, i completely agree with you with the poor visibility.

But it seems to me that you are ranting on how sh*t the corollla design is. My question to you is: Why buy it then, if you love sooking about it, if you dont like it get rid of it, go buy a ford focus or something.

As i said upload all you want, i know what its like to drive a zre, and im about 5.5" feet, i can judge just fine between the distances infront, behind and beside me, when i transition between driving a zre and a camry.

"It has to be best guess when parking or going between two objects."

i think its skill that you have to park between two objects.

"I'm extra careful going into corners a lot slower due to this blind spot."

Good to know there are safe drivers out there (Y).

"One of the helpers we got in for my father said all the cars they use are like this and in the car parks most have hot

the side of other cars because they can't see the front of the car."

I reckon its because they are poor drivers, and dont care about their cars.

If you are totally worried about the "poor safety and visibility" of the car, then why not just stay at home where no danger involving car accidents will worry you, unless a zre corolla crashes though your living room due to having poor visibility, and completely not the drivers fault.

[jeffy]

Why not get something like this, have no front visibility problems whatsoever.

Edited January 15, 2013 by jeffy

[Hiro]

You own an old car no doubt but the newer ones badly distort the distance from cars coming up from behind.

A car coming up from behind looks as though its 5 car lengths back when in reality its less tnan a car length.

No camera I know does this.

I know I own an "old" car (although two mid/late 90s cars are hardly "old" in the scheme of things), but as I said, I have driven quite a few BRAND NEW cars, and whilst I do tend find the visibility poorebecause I fear for my life that some dark and dangerous evil is lurking in the blind spot behind the A-pillar

As for "no camera I know does this", ever seen a wide-angle reversing camera? You know, the ones that show a ~180 degree field of view on the dash screen but just ends up looking like a fisheye? Yeah, that's not distorted at all

Oooh look, it's even from a Toyota....how fitting

I'm not the only one saying this. Many other car forums have many people posting about this very same thing.

And people love to bitch, moan and whine over the tiniest little problems rather than just suck it up and enjoy all the good things. The same people are the ones that take a car back to the dealer 5 times to trace down a mysterious and very annoying noise that just happens to be a stone stuck in the tyre. Car reviewers point these things out because that is what they are paid to do - review the car and note all the good and bad bits. Ever fully read a Commodore review? Yes, almost all of them will say that the A-pillar is annoyingly large, and that the handbrake action is un-natural, and that the dash is dated, but how many reviews say that it is a bad car and you shouldn't buy it? Almost none, because on the whole it is still a decent car, just with a few niggling issues like every other car ever made.

I'm surprised they get passed fit for sale in Australia.

How can poor visability be safer. That is simply dumb. Its like the NRA in the US saying that its safer to own a gun that not,

simply an argument that makes no sense what so ever.

...

...

...

I think I'm close enough to the bowser to get fuel but when I get out of the car I've

over compensated and I'm nearly 2 metres away from thre petrol pump.

They are passed fit for sale because Australian drivers are supposed to have passed mandatory driver evaluation tests and know how to drive a car safely and properly, including head-checks, properly adjusting mirrors, and eliminating blind-spots by constantly shifting eyes and head.

And judging by your inability to pull up at a petrol pump I'm surprised you still have your license.

You don't sell new cars by chance ?

Hardly. Would a new car salesman be driving around in a 370,000km '97 Corolla sedan? You don't happen to sell blind-spot mirrors and reversing cameras by any chance?

And how is not seeing any part of the front of the car a good thing. All one sees is the front windscreen.

I'm over 6 feet tall and even if I put my head up near the roof I can't see any part of the front of the car which

has to be an accident waiting to happen. It has to be best guess when parking or going between two objects.

I'm 6'2" and can't see the leading edge of my bonnet (the 101 Levin seats sit lower than the stock sedan ones), and can't see ANY of my boot in the rear view mirror. How many times have I hit a car in front or behind? Never. Can I park in a ridiculously tight car park that others would baulk at parking a bicycle in? Yes. Why? Because I KNOW how far away the extremities of the car are, I don't need to see them, this is called EXPERIENCE. Can you open the door to your bedroom in the dark? Of course you can, because you know exactly where it is from experience, you don't need to see it. Can you type without looking at the keyboard? Of course, because you know where the keys are and where your hands are, from experience. I most certainly hope you don't go around all day looking at your shoes to see where you are walking, because THAT is an accident waiting to happen

Almost designed that way on purpose. Designed so that they can make money from spare parts.

That is the world we live in. Everything designed to fail.

That has got to be THE stupidest thing I have heard in a long time. Car manufacturers deliberately designing cars to make them more likely to be in an accident AND POSSIBLY KILL PEOPLE just to make a few extra bucks on spare parts.

Why not get something like this, have no front visibility problems whatsoever.

I don't know, those front lamps are pretty damn big. Could easily lose a small car in that blindspot. And man, no side- or rear-view mirrors, forget about reversing camera too. . Instant Deathtrap

[trentmeyer23]

Why not get something like this, have no front visibility problems whatsoever.

I don't know, those front lamps are pretty damn big. Could easily lose a small car in that blindspot. And man, no side- or rear-view mirrors, forget about reversing camera too. . Instant Deathtrap

C'mon guys, that was probably the car jsta learnt to drive in.

[jeffy]

Would explain why all the complaints about pillars and poor visibility <_<.....

[Guest]

Interesting discussion... however it makes me wonder why you have a corolla if you think they are so dangerous... Also, having driven plenty of late model cars myself (and owning a 2007 Yaris... and now a 2010 Prado) I do wonder how you can find these cars so hard to drive... Yes the A pillars are larger than on cars from the 80s and 90s... but how hard is it to turn your head or whatever is required to accurately judge distance.

The trade off is that cars now-a-days are exponentially safer than they were years ago... Just look at the statistics, ~4000 fatalities per year in the 1970s... down to ~1500 per year in the 2000's... even though there are far more cars on the road.

(source: http://www.abs.gov.a...A25773700169CE5)

You also mention you have to take up two car sports when parking... you are parking a corolla... and you claim to have been driving for 30 years...

I personally have been driving for 8 years and could easily park my lifted 4Runner in nearly any spot you could point out (obviously not the small car only ones... it would not physically fit!)... It does not have reversing cameras or sensors either...

Frankly, I am glad I do not live in WA because I am fairly concerned that someone with so much driving experiences can have such a hard time judging distance/surroundings in a small car.

[Lawz]

If you can't even park a Corolla for those reaons then you really are a **** driver. Seriously for your sake maybe downgrade or get your eyes checked. Perhaps refresh your driving skills because your acclaimed 30 years experience can accumulate bad habits.

[rich70]

I'm going to add my 2 cents into this discussion =)

I've driven/drive 3 generations of Corollas

We have an AE112, ZZE and ZRE in our family. I hardly drive the AE112 anymore, however i actively drive the ZZE and ZRE.

My dad is a driving instructor (ZZE is manual, ZRE is auto) so i drive whichever he's not using, usually driving different cars going and coming back from the train station.

The AE112 used to be the automatic instructor car before he upgraded to the ZRE.

My thoughts:

AE112 - easiest to position since it feels narrower. While the car might actually be a bit longer than the ZZE, I can see the bonnet very clearly making it easier to see the front. Oldest car with thinnest pillars, however because of it's swooping rear (seca model) judging the rear is still hard.

ZZE - the car i drive most often (since nearly no-one goes for a manual licence these days). KenshinX said the blind spots were terrible but I find them quite unobtrusive compared to the ZRE. I can zoom up my driveway pretty damn fast in this, whereas I have to feather the throttle in the other 2 cars.

ZRE - i could barely drive the thing when it was first delivered. The car is wider, can hardly see any of the bonnet, I definitely found it hard to park. I park the slowest in this, but it's nowhere near impossible. However my dad can get within 10cm from the lawn mower sitting at the front of the garage in one shot. (you can't even see the lawn mower from inside the car) - he drives it every day for hours and i'm sure he has a really good 'feel' for the car.

I say it's all about skill and getting the 'feel' for the car. It's a lot about judgement and confidence as well.

While I didn't really talk about blind spots in reference to larger pillars in newers cars etc, I still think these can all be overcome with practice. I admit I have trouble parallel parking the ZRE sometimes since I'm not as familiar with the car, but it doesn't hurt to spend 5 seconds stepping out of the car, seeing how much room you have between the front/back car then re-parking. Most often than not, when you think your rear is about to kiss the car behind you, there's still a metre gap lol. Happens to me all the time!

Edited January 17, 2013 by rich70

[jsta]

Dont get me wrong, i completely agree with you with the poor visibility.

But it seems to me that you are ranting on how sh*t the corollla design is. My question to you is: Why buy it then, if you love sooking about it, if you dont like it get rid of it, go buy a ford focus or something.

As i said upload all you want, i know what its like to drive a zre, and im about 5.5" feet, i can judge just fine between the distances infront, behind and beside me, when i transition between driving a zre and a camry.

"It has to be best guess when parking or going between two objects."

i think its skill that you have to park between two objects.

"I'm extra careful going into corners a lot slower due to this blind spot."

Good to know there are safe drivers out there (Y).

"One of the helpers we got in for my father said all the cars they use are like this and in the car parks most have hot

the side of other cars because they can't see the front of the car."

I reckon its because they are poor drivers, and dont care about their cars.

If you are totally worried about the "poor safety and visibility" of the car, then why not just stay at home where no danger involving car accidents will worry you, unless a zre corolla crashes though your living room due to having poor visibility, and completely not the drivers fault.

Like I have stated many times in here before. When I test drove the corolla it wasn't the same car as I bought. I was hood winked by the dealer.

The car I had the test drive it was much easier to drive. I thought I was buying that car. It was a thinner car and better visability. When I arrived with my bank cheque I then went into their hanger out the back to drive it off. When I was driving back home I noticed sdomething was different and it was the poor visability.

My knowledge of cars is pretty much pathetic and they took advantage of this. When I got home I noticed the paint stains inside the car door along with the scratch marks. Here is the picture of the car door.

There are other paint stains in thre car. The dealer is hopeless to deal with. They take the time when buying and email back and forth but after I bought it they ignore all my emails and even when I've gone there they get a bit narky so what can one do about it. Companed to the ACCC 13 months ago. They never do anything about much. They are understaffed.

I've since found another Toyota dealer which are many times many times better and give good advice about the tyres and the general running of the car so I don't need to have the tyres constantly replaced. If the tyres had of been balanced in the first place then I wouldn't have needed two new tyres at the front.

Oh well live and learn.

Now that I've had my car serviced at the new toyota dealer I now go with the car is running much better. It no longer pulls on the steering wheel like it did before and much easier to drive.

[jsta]

If you can't even park a Corolla for those reaons then you really are a **** driver. Seriously for your sake maybe downgrade or get your eyes checked. Perhaps refresh your driving skills because your acclaimed 30 years experience can accumulate bad habits.

Seriously are you the villiage troll. You use an old car with good visability and obviously never driven these modern cars otherwise you'd know all about it.

[Hiro]

Like I have stated many times in here before. When I test drove the corolla it wasn't the same car as I bought. I was hood winked by the dealer.

The car I had the test drive it was much easier to drive. I thought I was buying that car. It was a thinner car and better visability. When I arrived with my bank cheque I then went into their hanger out the back to drive it off. When I was driving back home I noticed sdomething was different and it was the poor visability.

Are you trying to say it wasn't even the same MODEL car (as in you test-drove a ZZE but bought a ZRE)? And you still handed over the cheque?

[jsta]

snip

I say it's all about skill and getting the 'feel' for the car. It's a lot about judgement and confidence as well.

While I didn't really talk about blind spots in reference to larger pillars in newers cars etc, I still think these can all be overcome with practice. I admit I have trouble parallel parking the ZRE sometimes since I'm not as familiar with the car, but it doesn't hurt to spend 5 seconds stepping out of the car, seeing how much room you have between the front/back car then re-parking. Most often than not, when you think your rear is about to kiss the car behind you, there's still a metre gap lol. Happens to me all the time!

I over compensate all the time because I do not want to hit another car. Never had asingle accident on over 30 years and I'm not going to start taking to many guesses with this car. When I park in the supermarket at the floreat forum on the bank side it is teh easiest place to park as I can use the window reflection to guide my car in between two cars. The added carcams make a difference now.

When going to get petrol I think I'm really close to the bowser but when I get out I'm a good 2 metres away from it.

Some of my friends have gone the roo bar option just to see the front of the car and soem have gone for little flags on the front corner of the car.

One mate has even had these handle bar looking things up just behind the lights and high enough to see the front of the car when parking.

They should have made these cars with cameras at the front and rear like soem other brands are now doing. Some newer brands like the ford focus even have a computer to automatically park the car. Theyt need that in the new corollas.

[jsta]

Like I have stated many times in here before. When I test drove the corolla it wasn't the same car as I bought. I was hood winked by the dealer.

The car I had the test drive it was much easier to drive. I thought I was buying that car. It was a thinner car and better visability. When I arrived with my bank cheque I then went into their hanger out the back to drive it off. When I was driving back home I noticed sdomething was different and it was the poor visability.

Are you trying to say it wasn't even the same MODEL car (as in you test-drove a ZZE but bought a ZRE)? And you still handed over the cheque?

They take you into the front room where you can not see your car. Like I said I was hood winked. LIve and learn I guess.

I've stated many times I do not know that much about cars. I assumed that these things were more of a myth and certain car dealers.

My lesson is to take my brother wioth me next tiem when buying a new car and not buy from that place. Since found many other unhappy people that have bought from them.

So you are saying when you buy anything you take it out and inspect it before buying. They must love in stores. lol.

To many rotton things happened wuth this car. It had no pre inspection by the toyota dealer as it was not signed or filed in.

I found that out later in the service manual which had not been filled in my the sales manager or the sales lady that sold me the car.

Still that is life. Take the good with the bad and learn from it.

[Andrew357]

Just cut your losses and sell the f*cking thing.

Sounds like the monetary loss you will take is worth the reduction is heartache.

[jsta]

Just cut your losses and sell the f*cking thing.

Sounds like the monetary loss you will take is worth the reduction is heartache.

Why the need to swear to get your point across. I do not get the youth of today.

Why should I lose $10,000 in selling it. You may have plenty of money to through at things but I don't.

I'd lose if I sold and I'd have to spend money to fix up the inside because of these paint stains.

As you can see these are just the ones on the inside of the car door. There are plenty more.

This de values the car. It was sold to me in this condition along with other problems.

I'm hoping the ACCC in the longer run will get around to it.

If need be I'll go to the tv news media although 7 and 9 have advertising with toyota so manybe that is pointless.