Any GSV40R experts still around? I need help with my car from hell!

[BenDavis]

Hey guys, long time lurker here, hoping that one of you could shed some light on my disaster of a car.

I privately bought a used 07 Presara in March of 2016. Seller wanted $11,000 for it, it had a few noticeable issues, primarily the front left wheel hub was making a sound and the windscreen was barely transparent (my guess is from never changing the wiper blades, ever.) so after having it inspected by the NRMA and talking to my mechanic, I got him down to $9,500. Keep in mind, I'm 19 and this is the first time I've ever bought a car and had little help from others. Turned out to fix the wheel hub, an engine mount and the new windscreen was $2,500, but I was just happy to have a gorgeous car and be rid of the issues.

Enough backstory, now to the real problem.
Since buying the car in March 16, the total I've spent on it (including cost) is $25,600. The car has maybe spent 2 months in the last year with no (noticeable) problems. First I had the notorious U660E cold-changing from 3-4 badly. Then had to replace the brakes (friend at a Lexus dealership got them at cost and friend installed them). Then blew a headlight. Then the alternator went (in the last 30 mins of a 30 hour drive from Syd-NT). Then needed a new ignition coil (installed myself).

Now I'm faced with a yet undiagnosed problem with the engine. Basically what it's doing is when it idles in neutral, the revs will slowly drop until about 800rpm, then the engine revs itself back up to about 1500rpm and the revs slowly drop, and repeat.

When the car is in drive and stopped (with the brakes obviously), the revs will stay down at 800rpm, and the aircon will start blowing warm air, as if I've pressed the A/C button off. The car also creeps in drive very quickly, and often will change how fast it wants to creep (e.g. every time I'm parking, as I get halfway into the spot and I'm letting the car move itself forward, it will lurch forward quite quickly.)

The car also currently sounds like a diesel. I literally had a mechanic ask me if I had a diesel camry (hah). I had that mechanic do two really good oil flushes and then top it up with new oil with an additive to break down the oil sludge that was in the engine. This fixed the noise for 1-2 months but now it's back to being louder than a truck.

The check engine light also periodically comes on and off at random. It's mainly reporting error code P0019 (Crankshaft position sensor(bank 2, sensor B)) and P0025 (Camshaft "B" timing (bank 2))

I'm honestly at the end of my rope with this car. I recently went to Toyota Alice Springs, they seemed convinced it would be a clean or replace of the throttle body, but after inspecting it they now think the whole cause of this idling/noise problem is a build-up of oil sludge and they want to completely take the engine apart, clean it and rebuild it, which will be about 30 hours of labour ($4200!!!!) plus parts.

I know I should never have bought the thing and probably should have gotten rid of it months ago but I'm a dumbass who every time hoped that would be the last wad of cash I'd need to throw at it.

Does anyone have any experience with their car doing the same or similar things? Anyone have any help they could give me?

I've uploaded a video to YouTube of the revving issue. No, I wasn't parked next to a truck, that's the sound of my engine you can hear. In this video, I never touch the accelerator at all. https://youtu.be/CimK5XZl01k

[campbeam]

The following is based upon my own experiences with my 2006 Aurion AT-X with a build up of oil sludge. Without doing any dismantling of the engine, it has taken me about 12 months involving oil and filter changes monthly i.e. every 2,500 - 5,000 Kms

1. A High idle problem was "addressed" by gradually spraying a can of degreaser into the air intake near the radiator. Stop spraying when the engine splutters so it [hopefully] does not stall.

2. I hope that you or friend are DIY because I am going to highly recommend that you remove the engine oil pan to check that the engine oil pick-up is not blocked by oil sludge.

3. Remove the front valve cover and thoroughly clean the oil channels using degreaser or diesel. This should significantly reduce the number of oil changes.

4. Clean/replace the Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve. When cleaning, do this a few times and repeat/check at oil changes. 

5. When doing an oil change, after draining the used oil, I have filled the engine with 5 litres of diesel and let the engine IDLE [no reving] for 5-10 minutes. When dropped, the used diesel should be quite black.

6. Change oil filter cartridge and fill with new engine oil. I also added up to 500ml of diesel to the oil and monitored the oil level on a weekly basis.

7. I also started to clean the oil filter cartridge and housing using diesel fortnightly. You should see what looks like coffee grounds which is the undissolved oil sludge in the filter cartridge and housing.

Note: I buy oil filter cartridges in bulk on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/182355687844?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[mg85]

Sorry to hear about your issues.

As the oil flushing appeared to work for a while I would use this product http://www.costeffective.com.au/Product/27/flushing-oil-concentrate using the directions for a full flush it is made for this job and I have used it on diesel engines with good results and use it on the Aurion in its maintenance form.

FULL FLUSH:

• Obtain FULL operating temp drop old oil
• Refill with cheap oil add Concentrate and fast idle for 30 mins
• Drop oil and change filter
• Refill with good oil my recommendation A3/B4 Castrol Edge

 

Change your oil every 5,000km using the Concentrate in maintenance form.

Let us know how you go ay.

[ZZT86]

@BenDavis  How many kms has it done ? Engine sounds pretty sick, sludge is a killer due to poor maintenance ! Ideally both cam covers need to come off plus camshafts & valves, sump & pickup for a thorough clean - hours of work indeed, assuming the bearings aren't already ruined from oil starvation. Sad to see/hear of your problems on what is usually a brilliant motorcar especially if well taken care of.

Edited March 8, 2017 by ZZT86

[trentmeyer23]

1 hour ago, ZZT86 said:

problems on what is usually a brilliant motorcar

A lot of the issues are very common.

Sadly; whilst powerful, the Aurion(especially the GSV40) is far from brilliant, regardless of the maintenance aspects.

[mg85]

I would have to disagree here, my GSV40 has done 100K and I have had not one thing go wrong with it, zero.  How many cars can claim that?

[trentmeyer23]

3 hours ago, mg85 said:

I would have to disagree here, my GSV40 has done 100K and I have had not one thing go wrong with it, zero.  How many cars can claim that?

Quite a lot actually.

You are basing this off your experience.

I am basing my opinion off ownership and years of reading countless posts regarding the many issues that plagued the Aurion. 

I am not saying every car that left the factory had a fault; but there were, and still are many issues with the platform.

[mg85]

I too have been reading Forum posts for years if the oil is changed at least every 10K I have not seen evidence of systematic faults, which issues would you say have plagued the Aurion?

 

 

[nswnotill]

5 hours ago, trentmeyer23 said:

Quite a lot actually.

You are basing this off your experience.

I am basing my opinion off ownership and years of reading countless posts regarding the many issues that plagued the Aurion. 

I am not saying every car that left the factory had a fault; but there were, and still are many issues with the platform.

I sympathise with Ben Davis and the hassles he is having with his Aurion. As others have mentioned, perhaps it may be due to poor servicing by previous owner.

I have now done 185K in my 2008 GSV40 Aurion with no trouble whatsoever. The vehicle is regularly serviced every 10K by a competent mechanic, and it runs as well as the day I purchased it.

Granted there may be regular issues with some aspects of Aurions. However compared to the horror stories I read on other forums regarding reliability of Euro made vehicles (VW, Ford. M-B etc.) I am glad I made the choice I did.

[trentmeyer23]

VVTi controller/cam gear failures, dashboards melting, pull left issue, intermediate shaft knocks, oil cooler hose failures, VVTi hose failures, engine failures(more so TRD models), power window switches burning out. 

Surely, I am forgetting something.

As I said, just because your car does not have them, does not mean they don't exist.

[ZZT86]

@trentmeyer23 So would you say that oil sludging in the GSV40 (my favourite of all the Aurions) & subsequent Aurions are a major concern especially if full synthetic oil is used on a regular basis? If so then all I can say is wow - I just find it hard to believe especially given that the Aurions roots trace back to my gen4 Camry with the 1MZ-FE which is running as perfectly as one could wish for - it's damn quick in a str8 line too & smooth. I never owned an Aurion but have driven a few inc Sportivo & thought what a ripper car it is.

It's a given cars will have issues, gee the 86 has many but no real mechanical gremlins on mine other than ****ty 2nd/3rd synchros in real cold weather - it's a "characteristic" of the design I'm told :/

[matt36415]

My 2007 with 219 000km runs nicely. It had not been maintained too well and it made the horrible vvt noise on startup. After a year and 3 oil changes with synthetic oil the noises became intermittent and then non existant. I think this problem was an oil problem like yours seems to be. 

 

I have a 2009 with 115 000km which Mrs has had from new and the 2007 that I have had for 3 years. Apart from service items, neither one has had any problems or parts needing to be replaced

[trentmeyer23]

2 minutes ago, ZZT86 said:

@trentmeyer23 So would you say that oil sludging in the GSV40 (my favourite of all the Aurions) & subsequent Aurions are a major concern especially if full synthetic oil is used on a regular basis?

If maintained well, with good oil, sludging should not be an issue.

The same can be said for the transmission.

[ZZT86]

Of those common failures you mentioned above, I wonder how many of those are due to the quality of local manufacturing ? Having said that my 86 is made by Subaru in Japan & has some of those issues too especially the early ones, cam sensors, oil control vavles etc. Sad really given my old gen7celica ran for a mere 250K kms before a VVTLi controller bolt let go and caused some havoc, apart from that and some broken cam bolts (early construction flaw) nothing else went wrong mechanically which I thought was amazing for a new engine design that revved to 8500rpm on a regular basis :)

[trentmeyer23]

1 hour ago, ZZT86 said:

Of those common failures you mentioned above, I wonder how many of those are due to the quality of local manufacturing ? 

The USDM vehicles had almost all of the same issues.

[mg85]

15 hours ago, trentmeyer23 said:

VVTi controller/cam gear failures, dashboards melting, pull left issue, intermediate shaft knocks, oil cooler hose failures, VVTi hose failures, engine failures(more so TRD models), power window switches burning out. 

Surely, I am forgetting something.

As I said, just because your car does not have them, does not mean they don't exist.

VVTI is linked to regular oil changes

Dashboards yep on some but at least Toyota come to the party on them when pushed

Pull left easily fixed by a GOOD suspension specialist

Intermediate shaft knock was an issue with some earlier models

Oil cool hoses on earlier models yep

Engine failures this not a regular occurrence in a well maintained vehicle it's a great engine if you don't get 500K out of one you are very very unlucky

Power window switch on an Aurion you mean the one which effected the Corolla ,Rav4, Kluger, Yaris and Camry and recalled

I reckon the Aurion is a solid car sure a few faults but how would you liked to have purchased a any VW with DSG Auto and forked out 8K + (for component that has regularly failed) to get it fixed with no help from VW. Sure VW eventually after a number of years come to the party with some of them.

There are heaps of examples of major problem cars with out there a couple of recent ones below

Hyundai Diesel SUV's 50-100k motor failures

Anything Jeep 

Holden Captiva engines failures

 

There is a reason Toyota is number 3rd behind Lexus then Porsche in the US customer satisfaction survey and the likes of Hyundai & Kia are rated below the industry average in this survey. In my opinion these sort of surveys count much more than the Motoring press and to some extent Forums such as this.

Begin Rant -What gets on my goat is motoring writers, I swear some of them are doing an advertorial on the vehicles they test. Reading a piece in last weekends paper about a Range Rover on test, the journalist stated that being a Range Rover the vehicle would be great over Rocky trails and the beach as on the road. The damn thing had low profile tyres on it which would not last at all on rocky trails and would rubbish on the beach, the dude has no idea -Rant over.

Sorry if I've bored you guys 

 

 

[trentmeyer23]

13 minutes ago, mg85 said:

1. VVTI is linked to regular oil changes

2. Dashboards yep on some but at least Toyota come to the party on them when pushed

3. Pull left easily fixed by a GOOD suspension specialist

4. Intermediate shaft knock was an issue with some earlier models

5. Oil cool hoses on earlier models yep

6. Engine failures this not a regular occurrence in a well maintained vehicle it's a great engine if you don't get 500K out of one you are very very unlucky

7. Power window switch on an Aurion you mean the one which effected the Corolla ,Rav4, Kluger, Yaris and Camry and recalled

1. In some cases yes. Other cases it was component failure, more specifically the cam gear locating lug and spring.

2. Dashboards still melted.

3. It was still an issue.

4. Intermediate shafts were still knock in later models and also other Toyota models.

5. Yes, eliminated once the steel lines were fitted.

6. One particular failure that came to mind was regularly serviced(more often than log book), with high quality oils. It had less than 250,000km on it.

7. It was still an issue with the Aurion.

You can try and justify the and state there were fixes, but the fact remains that they were common issues.

 

[mg85]

Looks like I'm not going to get any concession here, on behalf of satisfied Aurion owners let the record show I did in fact try  

[campbeam]

Best to deal with facts. I am a very satisfied 2006 Aurion AT-X owner; appreciate having 6cylinders and the 200 KW when overtaking on the open highway. However, very frustrated when replacing the rear VVT-i oil hose, an issue that I read up about and was prepared for with parts on hand when that line finally did fail. Earlier built models had a rubber section which was replaced by a full metal version in July 2008[?]. Oil sludge is a known issue for modern engines Some engine designs [capacity of oil sumps etc. are more prone to oil sludge and there was a class action in the USA against Toyota for 2GR-FE engine failures. This is why I do frequent oil changes every 5,00 kms. I also read up about servicing the transmission and replaced the oil and filter.  Toyota GR series engines.docx

[BenDavis]

Thanks very much for all the advice guys, it's nice to see even though these cars are aging a bit there's still plenty of life in this community!

7 hours ago, mg85 said:

Dashboards yep on some but at least Toyota come to the party on them when pushed

mg85, What do you mean saying Toyota came to the party? My dash is buggered from this problem so would Toyota maybe replace it? Or was that an in-warranty thing?

[ZZT86]

1 hour ago, BenDavis said:

What do you mean saying Toyota came to the party?

Meaning Toyota would replace under warranty.

Basically I think what we're all trying to say is that Toyotas in general are a heck of a lot better than most which is why we all drive them, even if the occasional problem arises. If I had plenty moula I would still love a Lexus RCF or the new Supra :)) GTR is still my favourite though even a mint R32

[mg85]

3 hours ago, BenDavis said:

Thanks very much for all the advice guys, it's nice to see even though these cars are aging a bit there's still plenty of life in this community!

mg85, What do you mean saying Toyota came to the party? My dash is buggered from this problem so would Toyota maybe replace it? Or was that an in-warranty thing?

Hi Ben,

Have look through this thread

 

[BenDavis]

17 minutes ago, mg85 said:

Hi Ben,

Have look through this thread

 

Wow, thanks very much mg85. I remember looking through the forum about this problem a long time ago, I think that might have been before Toyota started to cave for cars out of warranty because I only remember seeing people with warranties having any success.

Realistically due to my lack of mechanical know-how I think I might try and trade it in, hopefully for a 2010 Presara (because I regret not getting a facelifted Aurion in the first place) so hopefully if I can get the dash replaced first that might up the trade-in value.

By any chance does anyone here have any knowledge of trade-in price of these?

[trentmeyer23]

45 minutes ago, BenDavis said:

By any chance does anyone here have any knowledge of trade-in price of these?

We got around $6500 for our ZR6 with 160,000km.

[campbeam]

I use RedBook for pricing and model specification information. As RedBook says, it is a Guide. I would suggest to look more closely at the final figure/cost to upgrade.

In your situation, I would do the following:

1. Research/ Information Gathering to determine exactly what vehicle model you want and can afford.

2. If applicable, arrange finance. Personally, I would rather pay cash upfront and avoid interest payments and higher insurance premiums.

3. Engage a professional used car broker.

http://www.redbook.com.au/cars/research/used/details/2007-toyota-aurion-gsv40r-102165?R=102165&trecs=85045&__Qpb=1&Vertical=car&Cr=2&eapi=2&__N=2994&Silo=1300&Ridx=0&csn_tnet=true&showNP=False&__Nne=15&spotid=280094&seot=1&__sid=1501617C89DC