Where is my power?

[MR22ZZ]

Steve, I also think the rolling speed is dubious at that Dyno.

Mine goes out to ~170 km/h in 4th and ~130 km/h in 3rd (though this could also be due to tyre pressure, size etc)

[KaZe-]

hrrm icic my dyno paper is a bit weird but eh its chucky at the top right??

steve,

[Rolla_Boy]

i stole your power and chucked it on my computer cause i got lag :P

[CORZZA]

CORRZA

come on man same dyno same day almost same time

105kw atw-

111kw atw-

:( somthings gotta be wrong. . . .

many factors come into play!

[Northy]

ok guys take a step back before this gets closed, the top end is fine thats what it looks like with a CAI and stock exhaust cause the exhaust chokes it top end.

PS danz, when i got my PFC done i looked at the sheet and said who cares how does it drive and i know bill did the same thing....

[Dead]

No increase in power...

However it shapes the powerband better. That's the key to it from researching it. Cam timing appears to be the key. Bilal told me that enough. You really make full use of it though if you perform any aftermarket mods to the motor.

[MR22ZZ]

CORRZA

come on man same dyno same day almost same time

105kw atw-

111kw atw-

:( somthings gotta be wrong. . . .

many factors come into play!

like the fact he is comparing 2 different cars... not his run running twice...

[shaohaok]

So you are saying you go to dyno to benchmark? I ask again, why do you benchmark when you are not measuring?

You have Power FC do you Xoom? You strap your car to dyno and let the tuning begin. Final results came out and what is the first thing you ask yourself? Most likely, how much power does this unit allow the engine to gain power. And then you compare by measuring the previous number with the current number. If you surpass the previous number, you have set new benchmark. If you haven't then the benchmark is not yet surpassed. But how do you know if you have surpassed this benchmark if you don't calculate and measure it?

So you are saying race team don't go to dyno do they? Hmm, thats a bold statement, you sure that's true Xoom? So why do you go to dyno to tune your Power FC then Xoom? Oh that's right, to tune it which requires a measure of air/flow, fuel, timing, and power. Now you haven't forgotten that have you? Race team will go to dyno, but they don't go there to win races. They go to dyno for the very same reason you go to tune your Power FC. What happened if you feel the car is bogging down? Dyno can be good, it can measure up critical data needed to diagnose your engine. Rich air/fuel mixture? Lean? Stoich? You don't tell me you use SAFC to find out all about that do you? Maybe you don't.

Personally I go to dyno to measure each progress of the modifications I made. Its not useless. Reliable figure? As long as the dyno is not mucked around, then yes. Different reading each time? Yes, but even day to day driving gives you different feel on the performance (hot and cold). Its nice to know what power it made on hot and winter. I'm not a dyno queen either.

If you said dyno is benchmark and not measurement tool due to unreliable reads, then no one here should buy CES - you support CES do you Xoom? You do. Because then it would make me feel, well, skeptic about the power gain. Even worse, its un-measurable figure.

So if you don't go to measure, and you go to benchmark - seems like you are the Dyno Queen over here, trying to set new benchmark for everyone to follow.

What do you think?

[MAP81]

Danz Is Correct.... How can you possibly "Benchmark" without measuring?????

Benchmark

–noun

1. a standard of excellence, achievement, etc., against which similar things must be measured or judged: The new hotel is a benchmark in opulence and comfort.

2. any standard or reference by which others can be measured or judged: The current price for crude oil may become the benchmark.

3. Computers. an established point of reference against which computers or programs can be measured in tests comparing their performance, reliability, etc.

–adjective

4. of, pertaining to, or resulting in a benchmark: benchmark test, benchmark study.

Also bench mark.

bench mark

A standard by which something can be measured or judged: “Inflation... is a great distorter of seemingly fixed economic ideas and benchmarks”

Dynamometer (dyno)

–noun

1. a device for measuring mechanical force, as a balance.

2. a device for measuring mechanical power, esp. one that measures the output or driving torque of a rotating machine.

[Dead]

Shao I like that chick. Cheers.

Check out the ar5e on that Mark...farrrk.

[CHA54]

I'm going to get a baseline dyno figure done on my wagon on Tuesday so I can measure the increases from each new mod I do... I've found the modern dyno dynamics units to be quite accurate (within 1-2kw) between different shops, eg Mercury and Crossley's DD units only had 0.7kw difference on my chaser, 3 months apart :P

There was 1kw difference on my turbo corolla, and 2kw difference on my other corolla... if you're searching for 1-2kw incremental increases, I suggest you get a faster car :P

IMO using the same calibrated unit for comparative purposes is useful. Remember it's the area under the curve that matters ;)

[xoom]

So you are saying you go to dyno to benchmark? I ask again, why do you benchmark when you are not measuring?

You have Power FC do you Xoom? You strap your car to dyno and let the tuning begin. Final results came out and what is the first thing you ask yourself? Most likely, how much power does this unit allow the engine to gain power. And then you compare by measuring the previous number with the current number. If you surpass the previous number, you have set new benchmark. If you haven't then the benchmark is not yet surpassed. But how do you know if you have surpassed this benchmark if you don't calculate and measure it?

So you are saying race team don't go to dyno do they? Hmm, thats a bold statement, you sure that's true Xoom? So why do you go to dyno to tune your Power FC then Xoom? Oh that's right, to tune it which requires a measure of air/flow, fuel, timing, and power. Now you haven't forgotten that have you? Race team will go to dyno, but they don't go there to win races. They go to dyno for the very same reason you go to tune your Power FC. What happened if you feel the car is bogging down? Dyno can be good, it can measure up critical data needed to diagnose your engine. Rich air/fuel mixture? Lean? Stoich? You don't tell me you use SAFC to find out all about that do you? Maybe you don't.

Personally I go to dyno to measure each progress of the modifications I made. Its not useless. Reliable figure? As long as the dyno is not mucked around, then yes. Different reading each time? Yes, but even day to day driving gives you different feel on the performance (hot and cold). Its nice to know what power it made on hot and winter. I'm not a dyno queen either.

If you said dyno is benchmark and not measurement tool due to unreliable reads, then no one here should buy CES - you support CES do you Xoom? You do. Because then it would make me feel, well, skeptic about the power gain. Even worse, its un-measurable figure.

So if you don't go to measure, and you go to benchmark - seems like you are the Dyno Queen over here, trying to set new benchmark for everyone to follow.

What do you think?

Now im not sure where CES came into this and why it was even mention ..... mate you guys in melbourne really have to grow up and let this CES thing go. So before you make a blunt accusation like u have above i suggest u sit back in ur box and have a think about it before u speak as now im going to ask u a simple question that even u can understand .... What proof do u have that i support CES ???? Wait it must be my CAI ... oh no thats TRD .... ah i know it must be my extractors .... no wait thats TRD as well ..... Ah it must be the exhaust .... ah yes that is CES but hang on a minute what are my current alternatives which are as quiet ???? ive put 4 other systems on the car with different mufflers etc and for me the CES suits my needs .... oh wait because i have the exhaust yes yes yes that must be it i support CES .... oh and for ur FYI and its not like i need to ask ur permission the CES will be taken off the car soon as it wont meet the needs i am after ... So how about you just grow up !!!!!!

Now back on topic .... u said 1 thing that was correct in ur statement the car was "tuned" on a dyno i.e. it never left the dyno the whole time it was being tuned ..... it didnt get the ecu put on then did a base line then left it for a few days then tried to tune the car again based on the base line we did a few days earlier .....

What u guys are talking about here is having comparable dyno graphs done several days/weeks/months apart ..... So learn to understand facts and arguements and presenting ur arguement as ur trying to say that tuning a car on a dyno where that car is on it the whole time from start to finish and doesnt move is the same as comparing dyno's done several days/weeks/months apart .....

Now i know you have had a dyno run done before Danz ..... each time they dyno'ed the car did the car put out the exact same figure ???? hmmmmm i wonder why ??????

Let me think .... because there are so many variables that can cause it to show different output ..... I think even u can comprehend this.

So lets keeps this thing on facts rather than fiction and emotion which is what you keep doing when it comes to arguing ur point .....

[KaZe-]

P E N I S ! ! ! :P

[BanGn]

mike got 111 3 months ago on the dyno and he got 111 3 months later on the same dyno...

[KaZe-]

yer that *****....

[shaohaok]

[Dead]

Little Britain sketch no. 1127

"Oh hellooooooo. I would like my car dyno'd please."

"No problems. Just put your car up here."

*Runs dyno*

"Well? What's the power output?"

"Dynometer says nooooooooooooooooo"

[MR22ZZ]

Dyno says noooooooo........ **cough**

[Northy]

mike got 111 3 months ago on the dyno and he got 111 3 months later on the same dyno...

i have had the same thing happen, but i have also had it go the other way, seems to be one of those things that you cant really predict

shao mate your killing me lol

[Dead]

Dyno says noooooooo........ **cough**

"Now which dyno readout do you want? We've got 101kw, 110kw and 111kw?"

"I wooont that one"

"Oh...but this is only 101kw...you sure you want that? That's vewy small!"

"Yah I know"

"Wewl...alroite then..."

...

"I don't like it"

[Mintos]

So you are saying you go to dyno to benchmark? I ask again, why do you benchmark when you are not measuring?

You have Power FC do you Xoom? You strap your car to dyno and let the tuning begin. Final results came out and what is the first thing you ask yourself? Most likely, how much power does this unit allow the engine to gain power. And then you compare by measuring the previous number with the current number. If you surpass the previous number, you have set new benchmark. If you haven't then the benchmark is not yet surpassed. But how do you know if you have surpassed this benchmark if you don't calculate and measure it?

So you are saying race team don't go to dyno do they? Hmm, thats a bold statement, you sure that's true Xoom? So why do you go to dyno to tune your Power FC then Xoom? Oh that's right, to tune it which requires a measure of air/flow, fuel, timing, and power. Now you haven't forgotten that have you? Race team will go to dyno, but they don't go there to win races. They go to dyno for the very same reason you go to tune your Power FC. What happened if you feel the car is bogging down? Dyno can be good, it can measure up critical data needed to diagnose your engine. Rich air/fuel mixture? Lean? Stoich? You don't tell me you use SAFC to find out all about that do you? Maybe you don't.

Personally I go to dyno to measure each progress of the modifications I made. Its not useless. Reliable figure? As long as the dyno is not mucked around, then yes. Different reading each time? Yes, but even day to day driving gives you different feel on the performance (hot and cold). Its nice to know what power it made on hot and winter. I'm not a dyno queen either.

If you said dyno is benchmark and not measurement tool due to unreliable reads, then no one here should buy CES - you support CES do you Xoom? You do. Because then it would make me feel, well, skeptic about the power gain. Even worse, its un-measurable figure.

So if you don't go to measure, and you go to benchmark - seems like you are the Dyno Queen over here, trying to set new benchmark for everyone to follow.

What do you think?

A dyno measures mechanical force produced by the wheels of the car - NOT a/f ratios and ignition timing, other measuring devices do this.

I am not exactly a dyno whore, but the experiences i have had with them...they are pretty sketchy. I mean i wouldnt be too worried about like 10% descrepencies for example. And as rollamods said, if you give a $hit about a couple of kw anyway then you need a car with more power where you don't need a dyno to assure you that your crappy N/A CAI is giving you a power gain or not but rather an obvious increase in g force when accelerating lets you know :P

I think the point xoom was trying to make Danz is pretty much what i said above...dynos are primarily a tuning tool which not 100% accurate and therefore shouldnt be stressed over so much when comparing numbers. Again as rollamods said, its what is below the curve that is the important part, the big number at the top of the page is just a ballpark figure.

Also from memory Danz you used to have a somewhat dubious dyno graph in your garage here that showed 91.# kw and about 6 months ago you went on a dyno day and only got 86kw atw - you werent happy. I will also mention that according to dyno dynamics dynos the Power FC gave my 1zz an 18kw atw peak output gain. On paper this is pretty substantial, so should everyone be clamoring for one now? No, because in practice it isnt as impressive and this comes back to xoom's point...

I think xoom and Danz need to settle this the only way possible - street race!

[Dead]

Street racing is bad mmkay...

[Dead]

Can this thread be renamed "Where is my head?"

At the moment I seem to have lost it. Have you ever said 'Dynometer' over and over again? It's actualy a cool word.

Dynometer...Diiieeeee noooommmm eaaaterrrr.

1/4 mile times I think will always tell the story of how quick your car is.

[xoom]

Also from memory Danz you used to have a somewhat dubious dyno graph in your garage here that showed 91.# kw and about 6 months ago you went on a dyno day and only got 86kw atw - you werent happy.

:lol:

[xoom]

seems like you are the Dyno Queen over here, trying to set new benchmark for everyone to follow.

What do you think?

And regarding this comment u asked what i think so im going to give it 2 u.

Im not asking for any1 2 follow me or 2 copy me or 2 imitate me .... and if u have a look @ the forum in the last year or 2 i havent offered anyone any technical advice on the forum ..... u on the other hand seem to have an opinion on everything (and u have every right 2 have an opinion) and if someone disagrees with u they are the bad guy (this u have no right to do!!!!) and they mustnt know nothing about what they are talk about .....

Now again i ask u 2 post facts and not emotion .... proof and not hear say as u seem to be doing all the time where is it that i have asked everyone 2 follow me ??????? However when u post if ppl dont agree with u and do as u say then they dont know what they are on about ...... again take a good look in the mirror. I dunno if its that time of the month 4 u but man get off ur emotions and actually start posting something thats based off more than wats in ur head!!!!!

Mate if u've noticed i dont brag about my dyno figures in fact other than the little bit of fun i dont even brag about my car i dont come on here and say i got this and that and its better than him and her etc etc so i have no idea where ur going with ur accusation of me but what i can tell u is how well my car has gone on the track .... take a look @ the 1/4 mile table that has been pinned to the top of the corolla section.

Also if i look @ the 1/4 runs for 1zz's i dont see ur name up on the list .... why is that ???? and i do believe u were boasting about ur dyno figures and what you've managed 2 do 2 ur car ..... Now who is the dyno queen !!!!!!!!!!