4AGE 20v

[Blacktivo]

Hi guys,

I am looking to purchase an A-B car for work purposes.

and was looking for either the Corolla SX/GTI models that someone has already

placed either a silver or backtop

or purchasing an imported corolla levin

Could some recommend a place where i could purchase this car/engine and how much will Ill b spending.

Ppl are saying that the 16v has more potential for mods than the 20v is this true?

Any thoughts appreciated

[blue_rolla]

well they are both 20V engines...

the silvertop was the original one, and easily the most common, and as a result, the cheapest...

the blacktop is the newer one, only released in a few cars, and more expensive... the only real difference is the blacktop has VVT technology...

you'll easily be able to pick up a 20V SX seca for under 2 grand, but it would be in questionable condition... it depends how much you wanna spend i guess...

if you wanna get JUST the engine, check out the jap motor import places for a rough idea of prices...

and as far as modifying a 16V over a 20V, the 16V IS easier because theyre more common, and they came out as the 4AGZE, so all the performance parts are there...

the 20V was a fairly shortlived engine... its an awesome idea, but for my project, ive decided to opt for a 16V just cos parts are cheaper and more available...

[MR22ZZ]

check out

www.twincam.org

www.club4age

and www.sydneyrollaclub.com

all 3 places have good info (though I've put them in that order for a reason)

[CHA54]

there's a crapload of differences between the silvertop and blacktop. In short, the silvertop is stronger than the blacktop, the blacktop makes a few kw more at the wheels. A worked 16V will make the same if not more power than a 20V with intake and exhaust.

You will not be able to pick up a SX seca with a 20V for under 2K, the average price seems to be 5-6K at the moment. I sold my last blacktop hatch for $7500.

If you plan to buy a car and do the conversion, buy an AE101 20V Levin or Trueno instead, you will save a fair amount of cash.

The 20V was available from 1991 through to 2000, 1995 was the changeover year from silvertop (AE101) to blacktop (AE111)

Twincam.org is the best source on the internet for FWD 20V info, followed by club4ag.

Edited October 24, 2006 by rollamods

[MR22ZZ]

I did say I listed them in that order for a reason Jason ;)

though maybe I should have made a larger gap to SRC on the technical side, and slotted Toymods in there... though they get sick of hearing 4AGE questions

[jade]

from what you said blue rolla, the silvertop doesnt have vvt???

[CHA54]

Blue rolla is wrong. All three of the 20V's have VVT, the blacktop does not have VVTi as a lot of internet people claim.

[Rolla Boy]

Is it just the blacktops that are MAP Sensored???

[CHA54]

yep

[Rolla Boy]

There's another advantage :P :P :P ...

[CHA54]

not really in the real world, power difference between the AFM and MAP engine managment is SFA...

[CORZZA]

What the power of the 20v's?

115kw?

[MR22ZZ]

the engine is rated at 100kw

[Rolla Boy]

Errrmmm the 16v is rated at 100kW...

From memory the silvertop is 115 and the blacktop is 123...

Rollamods should be able to confirm...

[MR22ZZ]

you're right... my bad

[CHA54]

ae101 is 160ps@7400rpm, ae111 is 165ps@7800rpm, ae92 is 140ps@7200rpm

[yuka]

im looking at getting an ae92 with a 4agze engine, good condition for 6-6.5k

worth it?

nice muck around car

sorry to be off the topic

[CHA54]

thats not too bad a price depending on the quality of the conversion.

Make sure the motor is the MAP sensored version, and doesn't have a significant power drop off over 5000rpm. Make sure the tacho and check engine light work, and that there is oil in the supercharger and the 2nd gear synchros are good, etc etc etc.

[Pullstarter]

there is a seca sx with 20v conversion for sale down here in the "gong, should still be on carsales.com.au, i had a look at it its not bad, needs a little bit of work but not much.

[Delvance]

Between all three engines (the 4age 100kw, blacktop and silvertop), i'd probably go for a 4age 100kw (16V) if i were looking at a conversion. Not only are parts abundant for the 16V 4age, there are plenty of tried and true recipes for modding the venerable 4age 16v to near 200hp quite easily (while remaining n/a). However, if you were looking to simply buy a car, and want it zippy without spending additional money on it, then perhaps look at the silvertop and blacktop. As stated above, the blacktop makes a whee bit more power than the silvertop but the silvertop's internals are a bit tougher.

Edit - actually, if you can find a rolla where someone has done a 3s-ge conversion on it, that may be your ticket. Just make sure the 3s-ge used is a later generation one. The early ones had less power.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Delvance

[grima88]

Hey ppl instead of starting a new topic I thought I would slot it in here... I'm really loving the JDM AE111 Levin/Trueno's at the moment, but am just wondering is there a difference between the AE111 Levin, Trueno and Sprinter, are they just different names in different markets (e.g. Corolla in Australia and RunX in Japan), or is it like the name together (e.g. Trueno Levin or Sprinter Trueno like Corolla Seca here in Aus). I hope that sought of made sense, cos I'm tryin to find out a bit more about this car cos its really HOT!!! ...

[kecho]

AE111 can be called Corolla Sprinter (this name is common in Japan and USA) or Corolla Levin or Corolla Trueno or Toyota Levin or Toyota Trueno or Levin or Trueno... whatever you like to call it

Trueno and Levin are two different model with only body work differences

there is a saying that Trueno is for Japanese domestic market where Levin is for overseas markets (but you can find both Trueno and Levin in Japan)

there is also a saying that the appearance of Trueno is more sporty where Levin is more Luxury

there are also different grades of AE111... BZ-V, BZ-G, BZ-R (after 98 facelift) where only BZ-R is equiped with 6-sp LSD gearbox, super strut suspension and different rear spoiler

I can only confirm that Trueno got a smaller turning circle (according to some Jap web source)

this is a facelift Levin BZ-R (stock)

this is a facelift Trueno (XZ??) with black head light plus aftermarket rims (posted by grima88)

[kecho]

there's a crapload of differences between the silvertop and blacktop. In short, the silvertop is stronger than the blacktop, the blacktop makes a few kw more at the wheels. A worked 16V will make the same if not more power than a 20V with intake and exhaust.

i'm not sure about this one... but do you mean that forged pistons (stock in blacktop) is weaker than conventional pistons (found in silvertop)?? i do agree silvertop has a higher potential to mod. this is because blacktop is designed to it's best. that means no further modification is needed for the engine (if you are happy with the 165ps output). plus AE111 is only a FF and not about outright power. and i think 165ps of engine output is very reasonable. i would rather spend on handling mods over engine mods in any days.

i understand different people have different opinions and ideas. i'm only expressing myself with my poor english

[CHA54]

there's a crapload of differences between the silvertop and blacktop. In short, the silvertop is stronger than the blacktop, the blacktop makes a few kw more at the wheels. A worked 16V will make the same if not more power than a 20V with intake and exhaust.

i'm not sure about this one... but do you mean that forged pistons (stock in blacktop) is weaker than conventional pistons (found in silvertop)?? i do agree silvertop has a higher potential to mod. this is because blacktop is designed to it's best. that means no further modification is needed for the engine (if you are happy with the 165ps output). plus AE111 is only a FF and not about outright power. and i think 165ps of engine output is very reasonable. i would rather spend on handling mods over engine mods in any days.

i understand different people have different opinions and ideas. i'm only expressing myself with my poor english

The blacktop pistons are not forged, there have been many blacktops that have thrown rods at high rpm, the AE101 20V uses the same rods as the AE101 GZE, these AE101 rods are stronger than the AE111 20V rods. There is plenty of AE111's that have thrown rods out the side of the block.

Further to the point, the hydraulic tensioned timing belt system on the AE111 is more prone to failure than the conventional 4ag timing belt tensioner found on the AE101, the AE111 VVT pulley also seems to be a weak point on the motor.

Edited November 29, 2006 by rollamods

[Guest JDM y0 !]

the levin and trueno are exactly the same apart from taillights and front lights.

in japan ae86 2door coupes are mostly truenos but there are levin coupes, just not as many.

the 3door hatches (such as mine) are more commonly levins but it is not a large % difference with the hatches. in my oppinon levin hatches look the coolest.

as for the 20v 4age. very sexy intake sounds. buy a silvertop if your going to modify the engine. i think black tops have a lighter flywheel and some better/lighter internals also. 16v 4age is the most supported for sure. and yes 16v engines can be just as power productive.

Formula Atlantic race engines are based on a 16 valve head 4age and despite the rumors they DO rev up to 11,000rpm like on initial d. and they DO produce 240ps. oviously a formula atlantic engine is not good for daily driving and also need constant rebuilds too lol. i reccomend a 20v silvertop if you are using it in a FF car. if you are using the engine in a FR then i suggest a 16valve with twin 40daiameter carbies or quad throttles.