What determines the "Sportiness" of a car is the heart -> the engine/chassis. The Celica and Corolla Sportivo feels sporty and can be considered "Sports" because it has a "heart" that revs to 8200rpm and produces more than 100bhp per liter displacemet, matching to a 6 speed close ratio gearbox. Suspension is a let down i must say but at least it can be improved (not like the DC5 TypeR and TypeS, you spend money on suspension to get worse handling). The MR-S has a nice chassis being mid-engined rwd but the engine is a let down for such a highly capable chassis and selling it at that price you expect more. If you say looks determine whether a car is a "Sports" car or not, then you are a hairdresser and should go buy a hairdresser's car (no offense). ;) Z ← Hey Z i wish you were right ....I wish i was a hairdresser where i get my haircut anyway, i would be on a constant hard on man......soo many hotties.Anyway back to the car....you cant really call the corolla a true sports car in stock trim.and thats what i was referring to, i dont like comparing "modified" etc because not everyone modifies their car, thats something you guys just dont want to understand or it doesent sink in, NOT Everybody buys a car to modify it to handle better more power etc....because of money etc. Thats what im about, in stock form the corolla has a great sporty engine but its not a sports car in both looks and handling...engine ...well yeah but thats it. The celica, was pretty much a Corona with two doors in Australia....and later on a two door sports car with a Camry engine...with the exception of the GT4 which was a Fat 4wd. The only true sports car made for the aussie market was the Supra and the MR2...which did not sell and did not live for long...it sucks but thats reality and how many of us here would fork out 40+ grand for an MRS or a Celica for that matter..... or 60 odd for a supra(new back in the late 80's)there are many "better" options for that price..........then comes the corolla with a sporty engine and reasonable price....but the Fudges at toyota give it the stance of a 4wd and the handling of a shopping trolley and stuff things up, ends up costing us anouther couple of grand to make the dam thing the way we want it.....and the thing that pisses me off the most is that it the sportivo range you do not have any options to upgrade to more performance, its all enhancing crap like tint and towbar. If toyota were serious they would have wheels options and also chip and a friggin rear skirt(I was told the new models dont have it)....but they dont give a stuff...Ahhh im arguing with myself...sorry guys but it makes no sense to me...toyota get in F1 then cut their sports range out....why?