Update from Toyota about Sticky Shifter..

[ZEEROLLA]

:o Well a technician at Wollongong Toyota rang the Sydney HQ today and enquired about this issue and they said quite a few people have this problem and it is something "common" in the Stivos and has something to do with the friction plate on the clutch and the flywheel at very high revs, causing the jamming or sticking of the shifter.

Now they said the car was made to be driven to high revs but they had to make a clutch with a compromise (comfort, NVH, and ease of use) for all drivers. They said for people wanting to drive it hard all the time and take it to the track, they would recommend a clutch change eg. brass button clutch, but it will be very hard to drive on the street.

For those experiencing frequent crunching of gears i would suggest get the Clutch/Flywheel looked at ASAP. It is not worth waiting for Toyota to fix it because every time we crunch gears we are doing damage to the gearbox and you will be looking at a long time without your car when a gear breaks loose. Prevention is better than cure. Toyota is already saying the clutch is made to compromise so i don't expect they will do anything because the car still drives fine the majority of the time under 8000rpm for me. The clutch will only deteriorate as time goes on and so will the gear shifting feel.

Look at it this way guys, by replacing the clutch and flywheel you will have so much more satisfaction and fun with the car. The car will be quicker we can hang this issue up once and for all. I know its a lot of money but i feel that this money is justified for the wellbeing of the car. Otherwise we just have to drive it with care which will mean less LIFT, for the rest of the clutch plate's life. Go decide.

Zee

Edited November 17, 2004 by ZEEROLLA

[oz_viking]

Right. So we replace the clutch and maybe flywheel at the same time? Gives Toyota a convenient excuse to invalidate any warranty claims on the gearbox later on, doesn't it....

[Danthuyer]

Again the whole exchanging of parts V warranty claims. It depends on who you talk to. My Toyota rep says if the part you replace snaps in 2 they will note replace it. (goes without saying)

Anything that is not modified is still fine.

I think this issue we will have to agree to disagree, as everyone has heard different things and knows of different situations.

It will have to come down to a case by case basis.

But Zee is right. the changing of these parts does make the car more enjoyable to drive. As it makes the car drive (safely) how its was meant to be........above 4000 RPM

[eddy_torrezz]

thats crap

i agree propably changing the clutch and fly wheel is the way to go however.

why would toyota comprimise the clutch, they have the comprimise its called the levin/conquest. with a 5 speed still goes hard. the sportivo is made to go hard so putting a **** clutch and flywheel then saying its a comprimise is a cop out.

for people who buy this car wanting the power and being able to use high rpms.

toyota shouldve offered the upgrade clutch and flywheel when you purchase the car. or at least if we want to get the flywheel and clutch changed they should cover at least half the cost.

thats my opinion anyway.

if id know this prior to buying the car i wouldnt have brought it unless toyota had changed the flywheel/clutch and added a few hundred to the purchase cost.

i feel robbed

[Ilivfor6]

Thats what I have been saying all along. The clutch/flywheel combo is a compromise for ease of driveability. I first said this 12 months ago. It is the same as Honda and the S2000. They want to do high reving performance vehicles but still want your mum or the wife to be able to toddle off down the corner shop in it.

Toyota is only putting their big toe in the water with this whole performance car thing. As far as I am concerned you either jump in or you stay out. Their marketing on this car has a lot to answer for!

With the setup in the car it will take a few years to FUBAR your gearbox. The problem is this will probably be just after warranty runs out. Big bucks to fix.

I deduce this because Toyota would not still be putting it in their cars if they thought it would not see out the warranty period. They do not wish to be replacing gearboxes for free. I just fear a lot of people will be finishing their warranty period with sick gearboxes.

Hence, again that is why I did my clutch & flywheel as Toyota was not going to fix the issue for me, and that was made crystal clear!

That's why I think ZEEROLLA is correct in advising if you wish to drive the car how most invisaged when buying and do not wish to own a mound of sludge where the gearbox used to be in a few years, looking after the cost of the fix yourself is starting to look like your only cure. If not you will just have to ease back on the revs a little!

It's not fair nor is it right but if you really want to enjoy the cars engine the options are becoming limited.

I am sorry to have to be saying that!

[shaohaok]

one thing i've noticed also. in the last few days where it's been fairly sunny and warm up here, the gearbox has been absolutely smooooooth. on winter mornings and starting up, the gearbox was always a bit notchier until it warmed up completely. i can get it to downshift to 1st without any resistance even at 45-55km/h with almost next to no resistance. i reckon it has really helped a lot and made the car driveable day to day, too. i dun see why toyota can't make it like that stock. the clutch isn't that much heavier.

[lucio_libre]

By changing the clutch anf flywheel the warranty is voided on the gearbox, or so i have been told by my dealer. I dont think the box will suffer long term if you drive it sensibly, if you keep crunching gears well then it's the drivers fault. I think Lift was only meant for limited use. I dont think the box/engine is meant to be driven at 8000rpm every gearchange Stewie, so by using the occcasional lift the stock box will be good, just clutch will be stuffed.

[ZEEROLLA]

Right.  So we replace the clutch and maybe flywheel at the same time?  Gives Toyota a convenient excuse to invalidate any warranty claims on the gearbox later on, doesn't it....

←

I think that's why we should all put in complaints first and once complaints have been recieved you can say "See i told you so!" if anything happens. I am confident Toyota by now knows of the problem as quite a few of us have written to Jenny at Toyota Australia and most of us have reported this to our respective dealerships.

Zee

[Blick]

I dont buy the "soft clutch" idea, try driving a standard Corolla, the clutch is as soft a marsh mellow.

Why doesn't the Celica have the same shifting problem and why only some Sportivos have the shifting problems?

Could it be that Toyota have more than one vendor supplying Sportivo clutches of which one is a bit dodgy and its a lottery which one you get?

If Toyota do use more than one clutch vendor then they should know which car got which vendor's clutch. They could do a recall but I doubt it.

[ZEEROLLA]

By changing the clutch anf flywheel the warranty is voided on the gearbox, or so i have been told by my dealer. I dont think the box will suffer long term if you drive it sensibly, if you keep crunching gears well then it's the drivers fault. I think Lift was only meant for limited use. I dont think the box/engine is meant to be driven at 8000rpm every gearchange Stewie, so by using the occcasional lift the stock box will be good, just clutch will be stuffed.

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The problem is the gear crunches even with the clutch to the floor. Also happens when people shift very slowly, not racing or anything.

[ZEEROLLA]

I dont buy the "soft clutch" idea, try driving a standard Corolla, the clutch is as soft a marsh mellow.

Why doesn't the Celica have the same shifting problem and why only some Sportivos have the shifting problems?

Could it be that Toyota have more than one vendor supplying Sportivo clutches of which one is a bit dodgy and its a lottery which one you get?

If Toyota do use more than one clutch vendor then they should know which car got which vendor's clutch. They could do a recall but I doubt it.

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The 1ZZFE doesn't spin at 8000revs does it, its when the revs are that high that the stock clutch cannot cope as the heat, vibration and friction level is much greater. I don't know why some people have problems and some don't but that is the question with everything else, like why some people have rattles and some don't.

Zee

[MR22ZZ]

I dont buy the "soft clutch" idea, try driving a standard Corolla, the clutch is as soft a marsh mellow.

Why doesn't the Celica have the same shifting problem and why only some Sportivos have the shifting problems?

Could it be that Toyota have more than one vendor supplying Sportivo clutches of which one is a bit dodgy and its a lottery which one you get?

If Toyota do use more than one clutch vendor then they should know which car got which vendor's clutch. They could do a recall but I doubt it.

←

As has been said many times before... the Celica does have this problem also...

[Ilivfor6]

By changing the clutch anf flywheel the warranty is voided on the gearbox, or so i have been told by my dealer. I dont think the box will suffer long term if you drive it sensibly, if you keep crunching gears well then it's the drivers fault. I think Lift was only meant for limited use. I dont think the box/engine is meant to be driven at 8000rpm every gearchange Stewie, so by using the occcasional lift the stock box will be good, just clutch will be stuffed.

←

My gears were crunching 20% of the time even at 3000rpm with slow, carefull changes. With this happening so often there was no way the gearbox would last year after year. So I researched very heavily overseas and found this issue was also common in the States & Europe. In the States many celica gearboxes were dying between 2-4 years. That's were I started reading that those who had the issue who changed clutches fixed the problem. I spoke via the web to many of these guys and all had the same story. Again though it was not all the cars having the issue, it was random. Luck of the draw.

When the clutch came out of my car it was totally nackered, and on the wear sections you could actually see hairline cracks. If I had kept the clutch in longer it's your guess what might have happened!

[NIKICH]

The only time my gears crunch now after the gear cables were changed is when i get a bit spirited and try to shift extremely quickly and let the clutch out a little too quickly....

I must admit that the changing of the gear selector cables has improved my shifting to the point that i dont have a problem

[lucio_libre]

This is where it gets tricky.....get a new clutch and loose your warranty or keep the clutch and hope for the best.

[Blick]

I dont buy the "soft clutch" idea, try driving a standard Corolla, the clutch is as soft a marsh mellow.

Why doesn't the Celica have the same shifting problem and why only some Sportivos have the shifting problems?

Could it be that Toyota have more than one vendor supplying Sportivo clutches of which one is a bit dodgy and its a lottery which one you get?

If Toyota do use more than one clutch vendor then they should know which car got which vendor's clutch. They could do a recall but I doubt it.

←

The 1ZZFE doesn't spin at 8000revs does it, its when the revs are that high that the stock clutch cannot cope as the heat, vibration and friction level is much greater. I don't know why some people have problems and some don't but that is the question with everything else, like why some people have rattles and some don't.

Zee

←

Zeerolla you missed my point, I was merely saying that the Sportivo clutch is not a compomise between drivability and performance as stated earlier in this thread. My wife has the Levin model, of which I drive from time to time and the clutch feels soft and lacks bite, unlike my Sportivo's clutch.

[qkslvr]

I think somwhere along the lines the point has been missed by toyota. We are no longer dealing with a performance issue, nor are we arguing about design. The fact of the matter is:

1. gear boxes should not crunch within a car's permitted rev range.

2. gears should not stick within a car's permitted rev range.

The story about the clutch being a compromise stinks! Most of us do not take our cars to the track. The issue here is not that we want this fixed so we can take it to the track. We want the problem fixed because it IS a problem that relates to day-to-day drivability. It also effects resale value and new cars shouldn't be like this. If toyota compromised on the clutch because they wanted to hit a Price-Point with the car, then that is hardly the consumer's problem. I think we have to make it very clear that this problem does not just relate to lift but low revs aswell. the problem is just more aparent in life because of the extra power output.

The circumstances of this argument are in our favor so why should we be out of pocket of a problem that stems back to toyota engineering? its just ridiculous.

So again, i would like to stress that

1. gear boxes should not crunch within a car's permitted rev range.

2. gears should not stick within a car's permitted rev range.

that is the issue here and more focus should be put on that.

[ADR_rolla]

Thats a load of Bull... why do some rolla's not have this problem? and why do some do? If i drive in my friends rolla there is no problem.. if he drives mine he says whats wrong with your car?

Thats just bull what you guys are saying... The guys without the problems.. imgaine everytime you went past 5.5 rpm and u couldnt shift into 2nd and even found it hard to get it out of first what would you say then when you drove your friends car without a problem?

If you have no gear problem dont bother typing here unless it is useful information.

As for what toyota said.. well i would say thats fine but make sure my gears work as well as the guys who dont have this problem.

Edited November 18, 2004 by ADR_rolla