2ZZ Extractors

[the_random_hero]

Who is interested in 2ZZ headers? First car will be slightly more expensive as you'll also have to pay for fitting, but I'm trying to do a deal to get a before and after dyno run thrown in.

Preferably you will already have a cat-back or headers back system, intake mods and whatnot are good. Car must be available to us for a few days to sort out fitting.

PM me if you're interested :)

[whitestivo]

though not showing any definite interest yet, i'll be very, very keen to see the performance numbers come out the back of this.

good work rth, great to see tocau pushing work your way

anyone know if head2head did a dyno comparo. i already have one from another manufacturer up here.

whitestivo

[the_random_hero]

So everybody is just all talk, eh? The same offer applies for 1ZZ extractors, although they won't be as effective due to head design.

[nate11six]

So everybody is just all talk, eh? The same offer applies for 1ZZ extractors, although they won't be as effective due to head design.

Maybe people aren't interested, because you can already get CES Headers, with proven gains...?

[CHA54]

...I think you'll find he's not talking about porting and coating stock headers.

[whitestivo]

rth, your up against ces, so your up against it to begin with.

i'll decide once i see some numbers.

whitestivo

[nate11six]

...I think you'll find he's not talking about porting and coating stock headers.

Maybe some more information will be helpful then.

[the_random_hero]

...I think you'll find he's not talking about porting and coating stock headers.

Maybe some more information will be helpful then.

We're talking tuned length (designed to make peak power when the factory cam does), mandrel bent with a 4>1 merge collector OR race-styled collector (you can remove the collector from the pipes) - in mild steel they will be cheaper than other quotes I've seen PLUS you get two dyno runs thrown in along with fitting. Stainless or HPC coated is just as easily available, the latter will require a bit more time as it takes up to a week to have them sent off, but still ends up being very competitive with other quotes I've seen for just mild steel.

I know a lot of you guys already have cat-back systems, if you don't we're happy to do a full system to your requirements when the car is in the workshop.

[nate11six]

...I think you'll find he's not talking about porting and coating stock headers.

Maybe some more information will be helpful then.

We're talking tuned length (designed to make peak power when the factory cam does), mandrel bent with a 4>1 merge collector OR race-styled collector (you can remove the collector from the pipes) - in mild steel they will be cheaper than other quotes I've seen PLUS you get two dyno runs thrown in along with fitting. Stainless or HPC coated is just as easily available, the latter will require a bit more time as it takes up to a week to have them sent off, but still ends up being very competitive with other quotes I've seen for just mild steel.

I know a lot of you guys already have cat-back systems, if you don't we're happy to do a full system to your requirements when the car is in the workshop.

Sounds interesting that is for sure. So who is up to it?

[SILVABULLIT]

CES did look intp doing headers like you have mentioned but there was simply not enough interest to justify doing them. Plus most on here want a simple bolt on type set up so that converting back to stock is a simple procedure.

The other thing you might want to think about is doing these headers on a stock car to show just what the gains may be. Doing them on car with XYZ CAI, catback will not show true gains or represent what the gains may/may not be.

Prices too might spark some interest as well.

I remember CES quoting me something like 1200 4 odd years ago for tuned length headers HPC coated with merge collector, modified mid pipe with custom flanges and flex couplings and also moving the cat and modifying the O2 sensor wiring to reach the cat's new position.

[the_random_hero]

CES did look intp doing headers like you have mentioned but there was simply not enough interest to justify doing them. Plus most on here want a simple bolt on type set up so that converting back to stock is a simple procedure.

The other thing you might want to think about is doing these headers on a stock car to show just what the gains may be. Doing them on car with XYZ CAI, catback will not show true gains or represent what the gains may/may not be.

Prices too might spark some interest as well.

I remember CES quoting me something like 1200 4 odd years ago for tuned length headers HPC coated with merge collector, modified mid pipe with custom flanges and flex couplings and also moving the cat and modifying the O2 sensor wiring to reach the cat's new position.

This will be a bolt-up arrangement - nothing will be cut unless you want it to be. As for specific pricing I don't want to get too into it as things may change, but a bit over that quote should get HPC coated headers + full system (including high-flow cat). Headers alone will be about half that.

[levinboy]

If only you were in Sydney

[Evo7]

If i let you sponsor me, i will let you do some custom headers on my car, after all, it is stock :P

Evo

[the_random_hero]

If i let you sponsor me, i will let you do some custom headers on my car, after all, it is stock :P

Evo

I know what your government bonus + a little extra should go towards ;)

[Evo7]

If i let you sponsor me, i will let you do some custom headers on my car, after all, it is stock :P

Evo

I know what your government bonus + a little extra should go towards ;)

a SUPERCHARGER :P ;)

Evo

[whitestivo]

that is gold

well done evo

whitestivo

[thegourou20]

Hey boys may be I should post it in the stupid thread but anyways I'll ask it here....how are headers different to extractors? Before, I was under the impression that extractors are only worth looking at for more "powerful engines" :-/

[the_random_hero]

Hey boys may be I should post it in the stupid thread but anyways I'll ask it here....how are headers different to extractors? Before, I was under the impression that extractors are only worth looking at for more "powerful engines" :-/

Not a stupid question at all :) The term is used interchangeably, depends who you're talking to :P I think headers is more of an Aussie thing. Not many factory manifolds are designed to give the least restriction at peak torque/power (it's pretty complicated when you get into the maths, basically one exhaust pulse helps 'pull' the exhaust out of the cylinders when the engine is doing a certain amount of revs), most of the time it's just a matter of the cheapest design they could get in there. 4>1 designed headers will give you the best power figures, but your torque figures tend to shift to the right on a dyno graph (ie. at higher revs). 4>2>1 are the best for daily cars as they give you decent power gains all across the rev range, at the sacrifice of less top end than a 4>1 design.

When we're talking 1Z and 2Z series engines, it comes down to the head design to the approach I would take. The FE head on a 1ZZ would lend itself better to a 4>2>1 set of extractors, while the GE head on a 2ZZ would lend itself better to a set of 4>1 designed to flow the best at peak power conditions for a 'racing' set, and peak torque for a 'street' set.

[thegourou20]

Thanks for the info TRH :) Do you use any CFD to have a rough idea on how to go about it or it is more a trial and error thing (backed with dyno tests)? In any case, I am curious to see what you can come up with. If you were here, I would have been more than happy to be part of it.

[the_random_hero]

Thanks for the info TRH :) Do you use any CFD to have a rough idea on how to go about it or it is more a trial and error thing (backed with dyno tests)? In any case, I am curious to see what you can come up with. If you were here, I would have been more than happy to be part of it.

There are heaps and heaps of ways to model how a particular exhaust will work including some computer programs that claim to do all the math for you, but a lot of it comes down to trial and error. The most thorough way would be using EGT's on each runner and measuring the rpm that the temperature drops off (which will be your 'tuned' rpm), but this is a lot of stuffing around.

[Northy]

Im keen to see where this goes. To get any real idea of interest you are going to do a set up, show the gains and name the price, without this all you will get is alot of "mabeys"

[the_random_hero]

Had a bit of further discussion today with some people, come across some design drawbacks caused by something you all love! Because there's a 48 degree difference between the lift and non-lift cams, you have three options for tuning - heaps of torque pre-lift, then slightly choked in lift, huge hit of torque about 1k each side of lift but a bit of a loss everywhere else, or a bit of a weak bottom end but a VERY noticeable difference in how lift hits. What would you guys prefer?

[doriae86]

All three options sound like too much of a compromise for me.

Stock ported headers ftw . . .

[Evo7]

All three options sound like too much of a compromise for me.

Stock ported headers ftw . . .

go with insane amount of LIFT :D

its not a kick, its a rocket taking off

Evo

[the_random_hero]

All three options sound like too much of a compromise for me.

Stock ported headers ftw . . .

Stock ported headers will give you the second option. It's not something you can ever avoid - making more torque anywhere in the rev range of a NA engine requires sacrificing it elsewhere.

Edited April 20, 2009 by the_random_hero