automatic failure Automatic transmission failure

[nswnotill]

All,

Since interacting with the Aurion owners in this forum, I have had a trawl through Internet checking out the whole issue of 'sealed for life' transmissions.

There are many car companies who now manufacture vehicles with this type of transmission (Mercedes, BMW, Hyundai, Holden etc. etc). On reading the forums one finds some pro 'sealed for life' people and others who are anti 'sealed for life' systems. It appears that manufacturers have moved this way so they can claim servicing costs are lower, and also this solves the dilemma of warranty claims by owners who fill with incorrect oil or overfill transmissions. However once the warranty distance and/or time is reached, the owner is on his own. Transmission failure during warranty is rare, but increases with age/distance. The manufacturer would like us to junk the old car, and buy a new one, thus increasing his sales.

This raises the question- at what age/distance is the vehicle deemed to be worn out , and the transmission in particular. Opinions between manufacturers, service people, and owners obviously differ on this point. However I note that with the Internet sites  I have read, that practically all manufacturers mention that the transmsiion should be serviced under severe conditions.

One could go on about the cost of servicing these 'sealed for life' transmissions and many other questions. However I am taking the conservative option, and having my 'sealed for life' transmission serviced regularly, albeit at probable increased cost to me. Hope this helps.

[Tanny58]

Hi LordBug, 

Yep, sure does suck, but I simply look at it another way, Toyota have simply polarised a customer, someone that praised their product to someone who will broadcast a warning to as many people as possible. 

We have company fleet vehicle suggestions coming up, guess who I won't be recommending! 

Take care mate.

Cheers

Steve

[Tanny58]

Hi Ron,

I agree, it will add more to your service costs to have your auto serviced at regular intervals, but the potential savings over replacing a gearbox I believe is worth it. 

 

Cheers

Steve

[JIN]

Hi all.

 

I have asked about the transmission oil level check on this forum long long time ago which post is in the DJKOR's sticky post.

Since the Toyota service schedule does not include the transmission oil replacement in their log book for Aurion around year 2007 (not sure the current model includes the oil change in their log book nowadays) and was told that the transmission is sealed for life.

I had a bit of worries that any kind of oil can go bad if heat cycle is present and it is just matter of time.

 

I decided to replace the transmission oil on both my brother's Aurion and my Lexus IS250 and both are sealed for life on transmission oil because my Lexus had a bit of rough shifting.

It is not impossible to replace the oil, you just need to be careful to get the correct level of oil to prevent under or overfilled which can cause trouble on your tranny.

I did this a couple of year back time with full synthetic oil (not sure the exact spec) and the transmission was even better than the time I brought both the cars in.

 

The drained original ATF from both car was shocking with amount of sludge and degrading of oil was already started.

Aurion hit just under 100,000 KM and my lexus was approx at 110,000 KM when ATF was replaced on both cars.

 

I am with 2007 Volkswagen Touareg V6 and this car has same system as Toyota does that the transmission is sealed for life and it does not require the oil replacement.

However, I did the same thing again right after I bought it (just bought the car at Christmas last year) as it was at 110K KM and the transmission now is a lot better.

 

As I have read  the definition of 'sealed for life' is approx 125,000 MILES from one of the US forums which is just over 200K km but 'sealed for life' does not necessarily mean that the transmission will last until that time and the manufacturer does not guarantee if it fails out of warranty.

Besides, as service department, replacing the whole transmission gives a lot more profit than just replacing the ATF.

I believe the latest European cars (MB, VW etc) are now including the ATF replacement in their schedule around 60,00~90,000KM so it would be a good idea to replace ATF around at 100,00KM if your Aurion is around year 2006-2011 and gives you a bit of rough shifting before the transmission fails with bad fluid in it.

 

[nswnotill]

Jin,

Thanks for the information. I reached a similar conclusion after going through many forums. Well done.

 

[trentmeyer23]

Whilst the pan is off, get a drain bung welded in as well. It will make changes far cleaner.

[LordBug]

Man, all the reading over the web I'm doing is a bit of an eyeopener!
Definitely going to be pulling my thumb out and doing a change, especially since the car has clocked over 100k. Think I'll refill it with the Nulon atf, fully synthetic that meets/exceeds the WS spec.

Will attempt to remember to take photos to show how relatively straight forwards it is (or if I hit headaches, isn't!)

[Tanny58]

Hi LordBug,

I use Nulon in my engine and have done so since new, every service after oil change I put a new bottle in.

I didn't know that it could be added to the AT, or is there 1 specifically for auto transmissions? 

Cheers

Steve

[LordBug]

Nulon is just the brand, they do a range of things, engine oils, automatic transmission fluids, manual gearbox oils, differential oils, and some other things.

The main thing to look for is that the ATF at the very least meets the level of the "recommended" Toyota oil, which for the U660E gearbox is WS (world standard).

This is the one by Nulon: http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Automatic_Transmission_Fluids/Full_Synthetic_Multi_Vehicle_Automatic_Transmission_Fluid/#intro

Thanks to the link you posted earlier in the thread, I gained a clear insight of how to change the ATF yourself, and a few DIY threads elsewhere have confirmed that. Thankfully, I have an adapter that lets me access the on-board diagnostics (Cheap and cheerless OBDii bluetooth adapter, if you want to ebay one for yourself) with thanks to an Android app (Torque is the one I swear by). Means I can find the temperature of the ATF without needing any extra equipment, and therefore get it to the ideal temperature for going by the "red straw" measurement.

And I have to say, going by some of the comments on other sites, my ATF has been going downhill for a while - When I first bought the car, almost couldn't feel the gear changes. Now, and for quite some time, it's pretty obvious when it does change gears. In the immortal words of Scooby Do, ruh roh!

[GDude]

Sounds like "sealed for life" really means "sealed for the life of the warranty" -- Haha! Btw, I'm motivated to have mine changed now too.

Edited February 16, 2016 by GDude
Added extra comment

[Tanny58]

Hi GDude, 

I wouldn't trust the dealership to do it right, it's not a normal serviceable item, go to an auto transmission specialist. 

My transmission certainly lasted the warranty period,  it's just that the rest of the 'serviceable' mechanical items will last a bucket load longer because they are serviced as per log book and well looked after. 

It will be interesting to see your comments after you have it serviced, your car will probably sound weird.......quieter!!!

Cheers mate,

Steve

[GDude]

Thanks, Tanny58. Yeah, I was thinking the same -- I'll probably take it to the mechanic who works on my other car.

Will definitely report back once it's done!

[mg85]

Specialist,  specialist, specialist or a dealer if your mechanic is not familiar with this transmission you are flirting problems down the track.

Good luck

Edited February 17, 2016 by mg85
spelling

[trentmeyer23]

A general mechanic will generally outsource automatic transmission repairs to a specialist. They have the tooling and the expertise that a mechanic will not.

[mg85]

1 hour ago, trentmeyer23 said:

A general mechanic will generally outsource automatic transmission repairs to a specialist. They have the tooling and the expertise that a mechanic will not.

You hope! or he could take it straight to a specialist in the first instance and no doubt pay less for the privilege.

 

[trentmeyer23]

16 minutes ago, mg85 said:

You hope! or he could take it straight to a specialist in the first instance and no doubt pay less for the privilege.

There is that or they will suggest a second hand gearbox. Regardless, it will cost you.

 

[nswnotill]

All,

I had my local independent workshop (who does all my vehicle service) give the transmission a work over this week. The car has done 155K. The work involved draining of the old fluid, complete flush, and refill with new oil. This cost me an extra $250. The tool that is used measures the quantity of fluid drained, and refills with exactly the same quantity of new oil. The old oil was stained, but did not have any ‘gunk’ in it.

 

Since the service I have done a 500Km trip, and have noticed that the transmission shifts more smoothly, and is more positive in performance. Maybe a bit pricey. However I now have peace of mind.

[KAA]

Thanks for the info nswnotill..I am pondering this service myself..I guess you can't put a price on peace of mind..I am glad it all went well and your's is back to the silky smooth transmission of old

KAA

[LordBug]

Meant to mention I did mine last week, I tell you what it's a messy b*****d of a job and a hellishly awkward one without a car hoist!
Changed the oil and also changed out the strainer inside, so I got to see a decent buildup on the two magnets inside the pan.
I won't lie, I'm not sure if I got the right amount of fluid back in, but I've only today learned of a DIY garage in Perth that I'm going to get to so I can use their hoists to measure it properly, I'll also change the oil again so that any old remnants are completely gone.

Overall, first time it's a hair puller because of one single awkwardly located bolt (Either need a crows foot spanner, or the transmission to lift up like the guy did in another thread on here, mine just wouldn't budge annoyingly), but I can see how it'll be a lot easier next time (won't worry about the strainer for another 50k I reckon).
Also, with my "I think that's close enough haha" amount, it's still shifting nicer than it was previously, and it feels like there's less lag when putting your foot down.
Two drums of Penrite (only used one) for about $45 each, a hand pump for $13, and the strainer/gasket was about $75. Almost an entire day under the car, most of it stuffing around with a single bolt (had to make my own tool to get it!). The peace of mind is well and truly worth it.

[Tanny58]

Hi all,

Ron, I'm happy that you got your AT serviced,  sounds as If it's working a treat. Just before I replaced my transmission I had the dealership flush mine, cost $450 (what do they say, "a fool and his money are soon parted"), oh well, lesson learned. 

KAA,  do it mate, don't let it go, small outlay now can save you thousands of $$ later.

LordBug,  I admire your persistence and patience,  I would have thrown a 'wobbly' probably after the first 2 hours. I have the mechanical aptitude of a garden slug.

Take care fellas and safe driving. 

Steve

 

 

 

[matt36415]

On 29 February 2016 at 8:36 PM, LordBug said:

Two drums of Penrite (only used one) for about $45 each, a hand pump for $13, and the strainer/gasket was about $75. Almost an entire day under the car, most of it stuffing around with a single bolt (had to make my own tool to get it!). The peace of mind is well and truly worth it.

What penrite atf did you use?

[LordBug]

Their fully synthetic multi vehicle fluid.

https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=3&id_products=336
 

[matt36415]

And how is it going since replacing the ws fluid with penrite?

[LordBug]

Immediately after doing it, everything felt pretty sweet, faster but smoother shifts. That feeling may have been part placebo, but it didn't stick around, I believe it was because I'd left too much fluid in there.
Anyway, went to a DIY garage on Monday so I could actually get the car up on a hoist instead of jacked up in the carport, definitely worthwhile, checked the level and it was a bit over, removed the red straw to get rid of some of the new(ish) fluid and a bit more of the remains of the old WS, and this time topped it up using the straw as the leveller.

Overall very positive, ****ing does feel a lot better, it's hard to explain it and again I realise it may be part placebo, but it feels distinctly happier, notable difference regarding little things like when I reverse out of the carport in the morning etc. Also shall have to keep an eye on the fuel consumption next tankful, as I believe too much ATF negatively impacted fuel consumption.

The peace of mind is excellent. And of course, I'll report back if somewhere in the future my gearbox decides to die :)

[Tanny58]

Hi Lordbug,

Yes, please do keep us informed as to your fuel mileage economy and performance of your AT.

 Cheers 

Steve