Coolant

[Tony Prodigy]

5 hours ago, professorD said:

but Penrite Red contains silicates (potential seal damage Toyota video) and is Si-OAT not Hybrid OAT (manual notes) non-silicate, non-amine, non-nitrate non-borate

it does meet TSK2601G so what do you believe

https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/pdf/tech/Nov2015/Coolants.pdfhttps://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/pdf/tech/Nov2015/Coolants.pdf

 

To be very honest, I'd just stick with the Toyota SLL Pink. It's not expensive and it takes all the guesswork out of the equation. I have my Pink SSL fluid ready to go as i intend to do this pretty soon along with my transmission flush.

[campbeam]

14 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Toyota SLL Pink. It's not expensive and it takes all the guesswork out of the equation.

Fully agree and it removes any risk of mixing different coolants. However, it is not what most of us do.

I know that I have stood in Super Cheap Auto and procrastinated [or is that updating my awareness] over the different coolants now available.

However, I do look at the Lube Guides of Penrite and Nulon for my specific vehicle/s and buy accordingly. I did have a quick look at the Penrite guide and noticed a change in the recommended coolant for my Aurion, Red OEM which must be their latest formulation and it meets the Toyota Long life standard. There is also a Note about doing a coolant flush. 

Looks like the additive packages in the coolant are improving significantly to extend their life. From what internet articles that I quickly read, it is the additive packages "wear out" or diminish not the Ethylene glycol which apparently lasts forever. 

[AurionX2]

My 2008 coughed up its water pump some years ago and the mechanic put in Castrol Radicool, then after about 2 years I did a drain and refill with Nulon red long life. Next year is due for another drain and refill, will probably stick with the same Nulon.

Edited April 29, 2020 by AurionX2

[Tony Prodigy]

3 hours ago, AurionX2 said:

will probably stick with the same Nulon.

As long as it is an approved product there should be no issues. I'll have to have another read up when I get a chance on the various approved products but for the time being I'll stick with what I have. My car is still on it's factory fill and the coolant still looks as new believe it or not. So that does say something for the Toyota SSL Pink.

[campbeam]

9 hours ago, AurionX2 said:

My 2008 coughed up its water pump some years ago and the mechanic put in Castrol Radicool, then after about 2 years I did a drain and refill with Nulon red long life. Next year is due for another drain and refill, will probably stick with the same Nulon.

Suggest that you get the latest Nulon long like coolant for your vehicle. Before using the 8 year life coolant, I was replacing the coolant in the reservoir each year to refresh the coolant additives. Going to stop doing that annual refresh but will still check the reservoir for any "sediment" and clean as required.

[campbeam]

5 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

I'll have to have another read up when I get a chance on the various approved products but for the time being I'll stick with what I have. My car is still on it's factory fill and the coolant still looks as new believe it or not. So that does say something for the Toyota SSL Pink.

I understand that you cannot assess the condition of the coolant by looks alone. Recent reading indicated that coolant when manufactured is clear then a colour dye is added. Also read up on how to check your coolant and PH level. I did buy some PH strips on eBay which I will have to re-locate. Should be interesting to see to what extent the PH level has changed in a year.

[AurionX2]

Toyota SLL gets a lot of praise and that's probably what I would have used if it wasn't for the water pump failure and the mechanic using Castrol. I'm now using the 8 years / 500.000k Long Life from Nulon, it was compatible with the frankenbrew I had in the cooling system at the time so I said, why not? Got it on sale, couldn't resist 🙂 Speaking of coolant change, that Lisle spill free funnel is absolutely amazin for bleeding the air out of the system.

[Tony Prodigy]

7 hours ago, AurionX2 said:

Toyota SLL gets a lot of praise and that's probably what I would have used if it wasn't for the water pump failure and the mechanic using Castrol

Hi Adrian. So you'd attribute the water pump failure then to having used the Castrol product ? Can I ask how many Kays you have on your Aurion ? I'm assuming we're talking about your 2013 Aurion, and at what point was the factory fill coolant flushed ?

 

[campbeam]

Latest AutoBarn sale ending 10th May has 25% off Nulon 1 litre and 5 Litre coolants.

I price check against SuperCheapAuto to help decide whether to buy now or wait for the special at SuperCheapAuto.

[Tony Prodigy]

9 hours ago, campbeam said:

I price check against SuperCheapAuto to help decide whether to buy now or wait for the special at SuperCheapAuto

Haha, me too. I price check all the usual suspects 

[AurionX2]

On 5/1/2020 at 4:43 AM, Tony Prodigy said:

Hi Adrian. So you'd attribute the water pump failure then to having used the Castrol product ? Can I ask how many Kays you have on your Aurion ? I'm assuming we're talking about your 2013 Aurion, and at what point was the factory fill coolant flushed ?

 

Tony, the water pump failed on my 2008 Aurion, it started leaking around 121.000k mark from memory and went completely one morning, 11.000k later. At the time the car had the original Toyota SLLC factory fill, but I can't blame it for the pump failure, I understand there have been some dodgy pump batches pre-2009. As part of water pump replacement service the mechanic refilled with Castrol, that's probably what he had in his shop compatible with Toyota pink. Right now the car nears 187.000k and, touch wood, the replacement pump - Gates I think - is holding up well on a Castrol Radicool and Nulon Premium Long Life salad, seasoned with Toyota SLLC leftovers 🙂

My wife's 2013 Aurion is still on the factory fill.

Edited May 3, 2020 by AurionX2

[Tony Prodigy]

5 hours ago, AurionX2 said:

is holding up well on a Castrol Radicool and Nulon Premium Long Life salad, seasoned with Toyota SLLC leftovers 🙂

Hahaha.. So funny. I guess the operative word here would be compatibility. How soon is your coolant flush due ?

A good time to give it a full flush and use either the Nulon or SSl pInk.

The Gates brand is highly respected and I can't see why the pump cannot last or even outlast the OEM product. It's all down to the quality of the seals and bearings really.

Last time I checked, gates water pumps were half that of Toyota's.

Will be good to see how long your's lasts ( knock on wood here too)

[campbeam]

10 hours ago, AurionX2 said:

it started leaking around 121.000k mark from memory and went completely one morning, 11.000k later

Handy to learn that bit of experience. I am regularly checking for any coolant leakage so I can then have the parts on hand and prepare to do the pump replacement on a weekend. For some time, I have had NPW pump and gasket combination on my eBay watch list. 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Water-Pump-For-Lexus-RX350-Toyota-Aurion-Kluger-Rav-4-Tarago-2GR-FE-3-5L-V6-NPW/282440041077?epid=2010133016&hash=item41c2bd0275:g:UCYAAOSwXuRerVhV

Checked eBay for the Gates water pump. I was surprises that it is currently at $55 including postage. Unclear whether this is pump only or a gasket is included. Best to check with the seller

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gates-Water-Pump-GWP5245-fits-Toyota-Aurion-3-5-GSV40R/163443615746?fits=Model%3AAurion|Make%3AToyota&epid=4027282712&hash=item260dffa802:g:c-UAAOSwlahdYFDW 

This other listing has a descent description of Gates water pumps 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gates-Water-Pump-for-Toyota-Priusv-GSA33-Tarago-Aurion-GSV40-GSV50-2GR-FE-3-5L/132997040056?fits=Model%3AAurion|Make%3AToyota&epid=28030746067&hash=item1ef73dc7b8:g:rvwAAOSwXYxefubA 

https://www.gatescatalogue.com.au/v/toyota/aurion/water-pump/gates-au/gwp5519.html 

 

 

 

[campbeam]

As previously mentioned, I did manage to locate my PH test strips and this morning checked the coolant in both my Aurion and the girlfriend's Yaris. This is for the Nulon pre-mix long life 8yr coolant

Because I have had the PH test strips for a few years at least, I also did a check against tap water [W].

In the following picture, I cannot see any significant/noticable difference between unused coolant [C] and the coolant that has been used for just more than 12 months. Both vehicles would have done less than 15K in that time and mainly used for short distance urban driving.

  Essentially, this just indicates that the coolant is not too acid or too alkaline to be a cause for concern. 

https://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/antifreeze 

 

[Tony Prodigy]

3 hours ago, campbeam said:

Handy to learn that bit of experience. I am regularly checking for any coolant leakage so I can then have the parts on hand and prepare to do the pump replacement on a weekend. For some time, I have had NPW pump and gasket combination on my eBay watch list. 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Water-Pump-For-Lexus-RX350-Toyota-Aurion-Kluger-Rav-4-Tarago-2GR-FE-3-5L-V6-NPW/282440041077?epid=2010133016&hash=item41c2bd0275:g:UCYAAOSwXuRerVhV

Checked eBay for the Gates water pump. I was surprises that it is currently at $55 including postage. Unclear whether this is pump only or a gasket is included. Best to check with the seller

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gates-Water-Pump-GWP5245-fits-Toyota-Aurion-3-5-GSV40R/163443615746?fits=Model%3AAurion|Make%3AToyota&epid=4027282712&hash=item260dffa802:g:c-UAAOSwlahdYFDW 

This other listing has a descent description of Gates water pumps 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gates-Water-Pump-for-Toyota-Priusv-GSA33-Tarago-Aurion-GSV40-GSV50-2GR-FE-3-5L/132997040056?fits=Model%3AAurion|Make%3AToyota&epid=28030746067&hash=item1ef73dc7b8:g:rvwAAOSwXYxefubA 

I don't think you'd go wrong with either water pump. Both the Gates and Nissan seem to pass the OEM quality control and more comforting to see the "Japan" in the casting on the NPW. I'd buy either. Toyota want nearly $200 for theirs.. (It could well be made by NPW)

Edited May 4, 2020 by Tony Prodigy

[Tony Prodigy]

8 minutes ago, campbeam said:

Essentially, this just indicates that the coolant is not too acid or too alkaline to be a cause for concern. 

Here's an extract from that link Ash.

Here’s the pitch: water has a pH of 7.0 and antifreeze has a pH of 10.5, so a 50-50 mix has a pH of 8.75, and that’s too acidic to protect the cooling system, so the pH must be modified to something around 10 to protect the dissimilar metals in the modern cooling system. And, further, antifreeze must be frequently replaced to ensure proper pH.

So based on this, your strips should probably be much darker ?? They want it to be more alkaline rather than pointing to acidic.

Would probably be better to use a digital Ph meter. I have one somewhere. I'll try and dig it out and test mine and let you know also.

[AurionX2]

16 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Hahaha.. So funny. I guess the operative word here would be compatibility. How soon is your coolant flush due ?

A good time to give it a full flush and use either the Nulon or SSl pInk.

I think I'll stick with drain / refill for the time being and keep using Nulon. I plan to do it every second year and it's due next year in June/July. Doing a full flush is a bit tricky since you'll never be able to drain the engine block and the heater core completely and the makes the use of premix problematic, because you'll end up with a concentration that's not exactly 50/50. Drain the radiator and refilling it every 2 or 3 years is good preventative maintenance. If there'll be any failure, like the water pump failing again, or the thermostat sticking, will let you know 🙂

[Tony Prodigy]

10 hours ago, AurionX2 said:

I think I'll stick with drain / refill for the time being and keep using Nulon. I plan to do it every second year and it's due next year in June/July. Doing a full flush is a bit tricky since you'll never be able to drain the engine block and the heater core completely and the makes the use of premix problematic, because you'll end up with a concentration that's not exactly 50/50.

That's an interesting thought Adrian. Never thought of it that way. I see your point though. I haven't investigated the process yet myself, but couldn't you apply some compressed air to the heater core inlet/outlet and push the old fluid out ?? Just a thought.

How about the engine drain plug. Is it difficult to get to ?

All this talk about water pumps has made me slightly paranoid so i purchased a new one to keep as a spare seeing my car has 120K on it now. I'd hate to get a phone call from the mrs telling me the car's broken down or if I spot some coolant on the ground before it sets off.

I opted for the NPW brand. Toyota is asking way too much in my opinion for what is virtually identical.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Water-Pump-For-Lexus-RX350-Toyota-Aurion-Kluger-Rav-4-Tarago-2GR-FE-3-5L-V6-NPW/282440041077?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

He's got one left at this price too.

[AurionX2]

Getting to the heater core hoses isn't that easy and even if I had an air compressor in the garage, which I don't, I think it's too much hassle just to have 100%, pure single vendor fluid, be it Toyota or Nulon. After the next drain and refill I estimate I'd get close to 95% Nulon, which is good enough for me considering the 2 years radiator drain cycle.

[campbeam]

2nd post in this thread shows the cooling system capacity as 9.4 litres which is exactly the same as in the Penrite Lube guide for a 2013 Toyota Aurion. I occassionally put the heater controls to max. heat so I know that the coolant is circulating through the heater core. Perhaps when doing the coolant change, you could idle the engine from cold just for a few minutes to warm and circulate the coolant.

After turning off the engine, then drain the radiator into a pan then measure the coolant volume. This will then give you a good guide of how much coolant will be replaced. If required, you can drive around to circulate the coolant then repeat the process after the coolant has cooled down sufficiently.

My previous simpler approach was to replace the coolant in the reservoir annually.

If you want to do a total flush without locating and undoing the various engine drain bolts etc, you could drain the radiator then refill with distilled water. Idle the engine for a few minutes then repeat until essentially only distilled water will remain in the cooling system. Based upon the calculated refill amount, you can then calculate the amount of concentrate to achieve an overall 50/50 ratio.

I have never used a radiator flush product [to date] but if you are concerned about internal rust and corrosion in the cooling system.

https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/radiator-flush

https://www.nulon.com.au/products/cooling-systems/radiator-flush-and-clean?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlYL24b6d6QIVESUrCh2NpwE6EAMYASAAEgJTN_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

.

[Tony Prodigy]

I decided to open the box up and inspect my new replacement water pump by NPW. It looks well made, a little rough in parts of the casting but overall looks like a quality item. Impeller looks to be zinc plated I think so it doesn't corrode ? Good coolant should keep corrosion away anyway.

It also came with the gasket and some O rings. I also have a Genuine Toyota Gasket too.

 

[KAA]

Does look good quality Tony..thanks for the Pic's, so how long can you contain yourself before fitting it?

KAA

[AurionX2]

I'd say he'll wait a while 😁 why fix it if ain't broken? He's got the pump as cheap insurance, makes little sense to pull the existing one out if it does the job. Once it'll star seeping it's a slightly different story, but even then there's little danger to cook up the engine. Routine fluid level checks should pick up any coolant loss and listening every so often to noises coming from the engine bay should help to isolate the bearing noise of death coming from the water pump. I'm yet to hear of a Camry or an Aurion killing the engine because of dropping its coolant, they're pretty well engineered and can cop a fair bit of abuse.

[KAA]

Yes Adrian more than likely Tony will wait until it is needed..I also haven't heard of Camry or Aurion engines cooking themselves from a water pump leak..built to perfection ..sad days now as i wanted so badly to see the future of Aurions built here..but i am so grateful they were, as i love jumping in mine enjoying the feel of the power and comfort every time i get to drive it..even if it is only to get food these days..

Keep Safe

KAA

[Tony Prodigy]

14 hours ago, KAA said:

Does look good quality Tony..thanks for the Pic's, so how long can you contain yourself before fitting it?

Yes Robert it does actually. The fact it's also made in Japan gives me more confidence in the product too.

9 hours ago, AurionX2 said:

I'd say he'll wait a while 😁 why fix it if ain't broken? He's got the pump as cheap insurance,

If there's one thing I hate having to do is a last minute rush to find and buy a part you desperately need and either have to run around or have to wait for something to arrive in the post.

I'm putting together a spare parts package and keep handy for such emergencies. I can replace it at my own leisure and the time wasted trying to find and buy one, I can dedicate to taking my time and doing it properly and neatly with having to rush it.

Thanks for your comments guys !