LSD options

[MR22ZZ]

OK so I've been doing some searching and here are the options I have uncovered to date.

I was wondering is there was any more light people could shed on this matter with pro and cons of each.

I know there are helical, viscous, clutch type etc LSDs but what are the pros and cons of each?

well anyway...

here's the options for our cars...

LSD options

CUSCO

Cusco RS 1-way LSD 186 C Celica 99.1- ZZT23 2ZZ-GE 1,073.33 USD

Cusco RS 1.5-way LSD 186 C15 Celica 99.1- ZZT23 2ZZ-GE 1,073.33 USD

Cusco RS 1-way LSD 186 F Celica 99.1- ZZT23 2ZZ-GE 1,073.33 USD

TRD

COROLLA RUNX ALLEX WiLL VS

ZZE123-128 01.1- 2ZZ-GE 41301-ST804 F 96,000 Yen

KAAZ

99.09- ZZW23# 2ZZ-GE MT FRONT OPEN 1.5way DBT2100 925.00 USD

Quaife (which one?)

Toyota 2000 Corolla GT-S 6-speed QDF15E £495.00

Toyota Celica / MR2 Spyder 6-speed) QDF21E £520.00

[SyxXPaC]

KAZZ LSD at greenline

http://www.greenline.jp/catalogue/bccatpar...gory=drivetrain

83,759 YEN

[xoom]

LSD Technology: Open Differentials vs. Clutch Type LSDs vs. Torsen(Helical) LSDs

(http://www.jza70.com/articles/diffs_lsd/)

There are basically 3 types of differentials: an open differnential, the clutch type limited slip, and the torsen type limited slip.

Open DIfferential

This is the basic differential. The sides of the axle are coupled via gears. The speed of both halves will add up to a constant. However, the ratio from one side to the other is completely free. Torque will follow the path of least resistance.

Advantages:

* Cheap, simple and light.

* Doesn't cause over steer.

* Never wears out.

Disadvantages:

If one wheel looses traction, it receives all power and the other wheel stays fixed (due to the greater force of static friction). The car will not accelerate well (if at all).

Clutch Type Limited Slip

The axle halves are linked with a set of gears like the simple differential. However, they are also linked by a set of clutches. The clutches will exert an extra force to try and turn the wheels at the same speed. The rule about the speed adding to a constant still applies.

Advantages:

* Both wheels will try to turn in the same direction and at the same speed even when there is little or no traction.

* Some force (relative to the amount of friction between the clutches) is applied to both wheels even if one wheel is spinning free. For example, if one wheel is in mud and the other on asphalt, the wheel that is on asphalt will receive some of the power and the car can move.

Disadvantages:

* Causes over steer in corners (due to the LSDs attempt to keep the wheels spinning at the same speed) even when coasting.

* Clutches can wear out.

Torsen (Helical) Type Limited Slip

A torsen limited slip differential uses a set of helical gears to limit slip between the wheels. When no power is applied the wheels may spin independent as they do in a open differential. When power is applied the torsen LSD attempts to equalize the power application.

Advantages:

* Both wheels will try to turn in the same direction and at the same speed as long as both wheels have some resistance (are not completely free).

* Does not cause over steer when no power is applied.

* Never wears out.

Disadvantages:

* If one wheel is free (e.g. off the ground) it will receive all the power and the other wheel will receive 0 power.

Conclusion

For open road applications and auto-x, the torsen LSD is the best. However, the clutch type LSD is a very good unit for street and strip use also. For pure drag cars (i.e. those that are trailed to the drag strip and only drag race) a welded open differential may be the best choice. It is lighter and simpler and when welded will deliver equal power both wheels at all times.

[MR22ZZ]

So for a track day car the Helical type is the one to get then.

Cheers for that Bills :)

Any idea on how long the clutches on the clutch type ones usually last for?

If anyone can shed more light go right ahead.

I'm still confused as to which brands make which type...

[SyxXPaC]

Some reviews on different once

http://9thgencorolla.com/forum/showthread....p;highlight=LSD

http://9thgencorolla.com/forum/showthread....p;highlight=LSD

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread...p;highlight=LSD

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread...p;highlight=LSD

[Red_CT9A]

i understand that the helical type lsd do not require servicing or reconditioning at all, and therefore makes it maintenance free, which is good i guess. also the application is not as abrupt and noticeable, allowing a smoother feel to it

the clutch type lsd do require servicing and reconditioning after a certain amount of kilometers, and u tend to feel the lsd more, ie...less smoother transition

Cusco RS, MZ and TRD lsd are both mechanical (clutch type)

Quaife is helical and so is the factory lsd that comes optional in the JDM 2ZZ celica ;)

[SILVABULLIT]

i understand that the helical type lsd do not require servicing or reconditioning at all, and therefore makes it maintenance free, which is good i guess. also the application is not as abrupt and noticeable, allowing a smoother feel to it

the clutch type lsd do require servicing and reconditioning after a certain amount of kilometers, and u tend to feel the lsd more, ie...less smoother transition

Cusco RS, MZ and TRD lsd are both mechanical (clutch type)

Quaife is helical and so is the factory lsd that comes optional in the JDM 2ZZ celica ;)

Helcical is the way to go for smoothness of operation and Quaife is the one that I would choose. Not the cheapest but prolly the best. Been around for years and are used by a lot of off road racers that I know of and have been relatively trouble free and pretty much unbreakable.

[specialized32]

if i wasnt worried about warrenty my money is on the Quaife just because of no servicing

[shaohaok]

if it's not in stock from quaife, good luck

and if the gearbox is coming apart, u might as well chuck in more goodies :)

i understand that the helical type lsd do not require servicing or reconditioning at all, and therefore makes it maintenance free, which is good i guess. also the application is not as abrupt and noticeable, allowing a smoother feel to it

the clutch type lsd do require servicing and reconditioning after a certain amount of kilometers, and u tend to feel the lsd more, ie...less smoother transition

Cusco RS, MZ and TRD lsd are both mechanical (clutch type)

Quaife is helical and so is the factory lsd that comes optional in the JDM 2ZZ celica ;)

oh yeah, and wat he said ^^

optional in the JDM ZZT231, standard in the TRD Msport celicas. funny enough, it's still an open diff on the TRD Msport runX.

[ar44]

Anyone here had any first hand experience with the trd clutch type diff?

[shaohaok]

Anyone here had any first hand experience with the trd clutch type diff?

on a celica

[ZEEROLLA]

Wonder what the "mechanical torque sensing LSD" in the MPS3 would be? ;) My money is on a clutch type..

Edited August 9, 2006 by ZEEROLLA

[MR22ZZ]

Anyone here had any first hand experience with the trd clutch type diff?

I think Gipper in Victoria has one on his little beast with the massive brakes...

[xoom]

Anyone here had any first hand experience with the trd clutch type diff?

I think Gipper in Victoria has one on his little beast with the massive brakes...

yep thats gipper .... havent seen him on the forum in a while though

[76ACC]

So if I went the Quaife is it a matter of drop her in or is it a huge pain in the rear???

[vvti16v]

Hey Guys,

Are there any LSD's for the 1ZZ ? :)

[MR22ZZ]

So if I went the Quaife is it a matter of drop her in or is it a huge pain in the rear???

it's a full days work for a mechanic or 2

I'm wanting to do LSD, Clutch and Flywheel all at the same time to save on labour costs.

Shao, I looked at the quaife gear sets too, but not real interested in a dogbox for the street... or the 4000 pound pricetag...

[shaohaok]

So if I went the Quaife is it a matter of drop her in or is it a huge pain in the rear???

it's a full days work for a mechanic or 2

I'm wanting to do LSD, Clutch and Flywheel all at the same time to save on labour costs.

Shao, I looked at the quaife gear sets too, but not real interested in a dogbox for the street... or the 4000 pound pricetag...

kaaz/c-one ratios are a lot less than 4000quid and are helical cut gears. :D

So if I went the Quaife is it a matter of drop her in or is it a huge pain in the rear???

you have to take the gearbox out, take the gearbox apart to then get to the diff.

Hey Guys,

Are there any LSD's for the 1ZZ ? :)

yup

look around. ones made for mr-s ones should fit, too.

[xoom]

So if I went the Quaife is it a matter of drop her in or is it a huge pain in the rear???

from what i can tell all the LSD installs seem to mess up 6th gear as apparently toyota has a special part to pull the box apart which cost a bit of money so chances are a mechanic wouldnt wanna buy this part just to do 1 box ... so ull probably be up for a 6th gear as well .... other than this yep all of them are pretty much drop straight in ....

[MR22ZZ]

couldn't said mechanic negotiate with toyota to borrow said tool on the price of a painful slow death if it were to be damaged/lost/broken?

[xoom]

couldn't said mechanic negotiate with toyota to borrow said tool on the price of a painful slow death if it were to be damaged/lost/broken?

mate even some toyota dealerships couldnt b bother getting the tool .... gipper got a dealership in vic to put his LSD in and yep u guessed it they damaged 6th gear in and so they replaced it ..... chances r unless ur mechanic is honest with u or if u know them then they probably wouldnt tell u n just put it straight back in .....

[MR22ZZ]

so how much does it cost for Toyota to do the install over, say, the guys who are working on your car?

I must admit, I was looking the the service manual and how to disassemble the gearbox and recondition the other day I noticed it was a bit of a bitch to work on...

[Dennis_ZZE122]

i heard people say that LSD need about 5000km to run-in probably

you cant push the car during that period otherwise you will damage the LSD

can anyone tell me is it true?

[xoom]

i heard people say that LSD need about 5000km to run-in probably

you cant push the car during that period otherwise you will damage the LSD

can anyone tell me is it true?

Quote from Quaife engineers i have spoken to

There really is no bedding in period .... just get in your car and use it

i hope that answers your question ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

however this is for a helical LSD .... im not too sure about a clutch type as for those i imagine like a clutch u really should bed it in ?

[MR22ZZ]

as Bill said, only the Clutch type need to bed in...