Where is my power?

[DANZZT231]

I never said I'm not happy with the 84kw figure. In fact I happily told everyone I made 84kw. So every now and then I get pm'd by people asking me how I get that 91.6kw, but I always told them 6 months afterward it made 84kw which to me is perhaps more accurate. How accurate? Dunno, accurate enough because there is a benchmark with the modifications done with the car. Different dyno reads across statewide too. So its measurable. Pippy made 84kw, mark made around 84kw too, and both of them did made 90kw too once upon a time. Pretty much the same with two of my figure. Fantastic.

To answer Xoom's question why do I know you support CES, why of course you do, you buy their product. I wasnt bragging about CES, infact as far as I remember I always thought CES would be a good system. I support AEM, its there in my engine. Why CES? Dunno, its hot brand that one in this forum, and I may aswell use it. That reminded me, somehow each time I see Xoom or Northy, CES came to my mind.

Race Xoom? Sure, I don't mind finding out how far of a difference between a modified 2zz and 1zz. Even though I knew I couldn't win, but thats okay too, because there's something to be measured. Ah measure again. All performance is measurable, on track and/or on dyno. Track you measure the time. Dyno you measure the power. So that is why I always said dyno is a measurment tool because for everything you do to the engine you want to measure the gain. Is Dyno measurable? Sure it is. That is why you get Dyno Dynamics which has standards ensuring minimal variances between different dynometers on different locations.

But my dyno in Sydney is different than in Melbourne? Sure it is, because when I was in Sydney its cold and the car is pretty much spend the rest of its day on higher rpm, getting rid of all that carbon monoxide builds up. In Melbourne is warm, and been lazy to drive high rpm. I won't know that unless I jump in to the dyno in Melbourne to find out its making less power than in Sydney. The number figure, is the result of measurement done by dyno - hence my word saying dyno is a measurement tool. Good one too.

[~::BLKROLA::~]

hahahaha all so funny take it to the trak and out it away 4 now ...ur all like " meet me at the flag pole after school" B)

[xoom]

All sorted .... See what discussing things can achieve .... lets hope others can learn from this :P :P :P :P

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

anyway xoom, hopefully you understand it is not my intention to brag my knoweldge or to dissed you

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

to me, our conversation in forum about the dyno is a good one

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

a mere discussion so to say

xoom says:

yeah i think it is easy 2 take ppls comments out of context when simply written up on the forum

xoom says:

which is why i eventually asked bran 2 add u 2 this convo

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

well there u go, so i try not to be biased

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but is chat

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

you don't hear my tone

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

nor my emotion

xoom says:

its just the language used is very accusational and abbrupt

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

perhaps so

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but thats how i felt about your tone

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

which is fine

xoom says:

lol

xoom says:

ok fair enough

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

the idea of me contributing in this forum is simply to discuss

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

never once i said i am the superior

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

because, no one really is

xoom says:

i can see u have ur opinion on the matter

xoom says:

and thats cool

xoom says:

and in all honest i was about 2 agree that we disagree until the nice turn of events that got posted

xoom says:

lol

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

well its exactly why forum exist

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

we discuss

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

discussing can turn to arguement, which the bit i don't like

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but to me all this time i was never arguing

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i was discussing

xoom says:

well i was having a good laugh

xoom says:

thinking where is this going

xoom says:

lol

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

you can keep it going as long as you like

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i don't mind answering

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

as long as it is positive

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but here's one thing i like to say

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

all i said, hey its a measurement tool

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

and its a good question for you too, the benchmarking

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

no harm in that?

xoom says:

i answered it

xoom says:

lol

xoom says:

bascially there are 2 things here that need 2 be seperated

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but the way you answer, made me want to discuss further

xoom says:

1) is tuning and engine

2) bench marking of mods

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

ok, what is it

xoom says:

for 1) the car stays on the dyno the whole time .... the straps arent altered .... the dyno is not reset .... the tyres arent changed ..... etc etc ... so from the point the car got on the dyno till it got off u r 110% correct u have measured with i guess a 95%+ degree of accuracy what gains have been made ....

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

long word there bill

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

ah u posted

xoom says:

the instant the car comes off the dyno

xoom says:

then the previous dyno runs cant be associated with the runs u r about 2 do ... why u ask

xoom says:

well like i stated .... ive seen heaps n heaps of cars alter their dyno figures simply by being tied down tighter or looser

xoom says:

or had the incorrect tyre pressure

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

all of what you said, is correct

xoom says:

or the fan used infront of the dyno repoisitoned

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but its not really about benchmarking

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

to me at least

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

measuring is perhaps what i like to say dyno is

xoom says:

now point 2 benchmarking

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

ok point 2

xoom says:

if i do a stock run

xoom says:

and in 3 months time put a CAI on my car and go back 2 the same dyno place on the same dyno and do another run and it shows a gain of 5kw say

xoom says:

from the original run this in fact may not be true

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

due to variances

xoom says:

chances r and ive again seen this with my own eyes if u pop the CAI off and do a stock run on that exact time u will not equal ur original stock run

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

thats your case

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

which is not always it is

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but its fine

xoom says:

but u see for something 2 be measureable and benchmarkable it "must" be consistent

xoom says:

when they benchmark a cpu they use the same benchmark software

xoom says:

when they benchmark a graphics card they benchmark using the same video rendering

xoom says:

when they benchmark a sound system @ the sound off at a car show they use the same music cd 2 c how load each system is using the same "consistent" sound

xoom says:

with a dyno u dont have this luxery

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

yeah i know what you meant

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but its not t say you benchmark each time u roll on dyno

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i know to be measureable, one must be consistent

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

x - x

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

apple - apple

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but, the purpose of dyno is to measure

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

variance will occur

xoom says:

what i was trying 2 avoid is ppl read the forum and then get this imagine ohhh dyno's are 100% accurate and what they say is 100% correct

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

they are not

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but its accurate enough to be measurable

xoom says:

2 anyone that asks me i say this "dynos are a good GUIDE" and thats it

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

the thing is

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

if its benchmark

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

its there to be measured

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

keep it simple for now

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

agree?

xoom says:

but keeping it simple means a lot of ppl will get it wrong an potentially be made 2 look like idiots if someone calls them to stand up 4 wat they are argueing

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

it won't

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

because it can be explained by simpler term

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

less technical

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

the more technical u add to them, the more lost they become

xoom says:

ok if u had ur stance as ur saying it now

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

what i was saying is, dyno is there for you to measure your performance

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

now, u get your benchmark

xoom says:

if i said to u my 2 front tyres were losing pressure as they were on the dyno say 5-10psi can u say they are accurate bench marks ?

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

they r not, but thats why dyno is good for measure

xoom says:

but how do i know this if i simply look @ 2 dyno figures ?

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

say u gain more power

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

due to things like, ok, psi ratings

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

u then come to think, hang on this result is bit funny

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

what the dyno did, is measuring

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

by that measure u can then compare, find out what is the cause

xoom says:

but the thing is these figures mean nothing if i put my figures next 2 ur figures which is what these guys are trying 2 do on the forum

xoom says:

hence y the topic started .... mr rolla wanted 2 compare his figures with others

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i never said the figure truly meant anything

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but the dyno will measure

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

and thats what i think its important

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i learned why i have different read due to two different measurement which resulted different result

xoom says:

my stance on it is this ..... it will measure from the point u put the car on did ur 3 or more runs till that point u take it off ..... as soon as u try it again either later that day or week/month etc the figures cannot be compared at all

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

it can if u r less complicated

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i understand what u meant though

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

don't get me wrong

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

the dyno, so long its not mucked around, can be measured to compare

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

unless you are like what u said dyno queen

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

u get the wrong idea and concept

xoom says:

but u c by removing that element 2 make it simply will simply through ppl and they will be all crappy @ why did i lose kw's by putting this CAI on as before it read 110kw stock then it read 111kw after CAI

xoom says:

this CAI can only give me 1kw .... y do others see 5-8kw gains

xoom says:

how do u answer these questions by keeping it simple as u stated

xoom says:

the answer is u cant

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

here's what i will say

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

you can compare this, by taking consideration to the variances

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

conditions

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

preasure

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

sure maybe its not 100 percent

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but as u said, it never was

xoom says:

but as u saw from kaze-stivo's post he was taking the simple method and getting all annoyed

CORRZA

come on man same dyno same day almost same time

105kw atw- mad.gif

111kw atw- ph34r.gif

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

thats why simple logic explaination such as conditions and all is the better way of explaining it

xoom says:

unless ppl know about all these variances they will continue 2 be annoyed and complain about something that really isnt a problem

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

u throw them all this technical figures, they get lost

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i always said, there are circumstances

xoom says:

i didnt think this was technical .... lol

1) tyre pressure

2) how tight the car was strapped down

3) the temperature

4) the humidity

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

temprature, this and that

xoom says:

this is a car forum

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

well yeah

xoom says:

lol

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but not all people here are true enthutiast like you or me

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

they are here to learn from basic up

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

then they will go on

xoom says:

but if ur at a dyno place then u know about those 4 things already ..... and in all honestey te only 1 there that someone might say they dont know about is number 2 if they havent seen how a car is run on a dyno

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

which is why i always just explained the very basic thing

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

forget all that werid **** we saw on dyno

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

we seen em

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

they don't

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

not yet at least

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

because the idea is to measure

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

and measurement can give diff result - there u find out why

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

u then can say, oh yeah, lets compare

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

after u compare, u then know why

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

ah maybe the tyre psi

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

or, oh ok perhaps the temprature

xoom says:

as u stated though driving ur car 1 day 2 the next u feel ur car is differing in performance so then literally u can pull out ur dyno graph n say hey boys check out how big and bad my car can perform

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

thats why i never said this is there to read power, its there to measure

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

well yes

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i can can't i?

xoom says:

should be cant*

xoom says:

because that dyno run was done under the conditions defined on that day while u had is strapped down @ that temp with the 50psi or 40psi of tyre pressure they like 2 use

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

its pretty accurate though

xoom says:

if this is try y the variance in stivo's across aus ?

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

1zz

xoom says:

ive seen readings from 101 to 110 stock

xoom says:

thats almost 10% variance

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

well there are many things that made different

xoom says:

well yes the cars are different

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

and the driver

xoom says:

there are so many mechanical things that can differ

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

10 percent variance is not so bad

xoom says:

again it proves my point that u cant benchmark across cars

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i never said i would benchmark across car either

xoom says:

well thats wat the guys on the forum r trying 2 do

xoom says:

and ur arguement on the forum is saying well yes u can

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

that bit is not for them

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

its for u and me to discuss

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i never bothered what they said

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but the post was asking you, how can u benchmark without measure

xoom says:

my response 2 u is this .... 2 truely benchmark u must be measured in a consistent manner

xoom says:

and unfortuently in cars there isnt a consistent manner .... even 1/4 mile or track can vary

xoom says:

and thus u should use these things as "guides"

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i then shall add the dyno measure is for a single car

xoom says:

not the 110% truth that a lot of ppl think they are

xoom says:

even then i have 2 dyno's

xoom says:

same mods

xoom says:

same dyno software

xoom says:

2 totally diff figures

xoom says:

112 and 119

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i never said comparing ur dyno to other's dyno, but surprsingly my results are similar to pp, mark, and nothry's 1zz

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

there i realise

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

perhaps, despite the variances, u can (if u want) compare

xoom says:

but this is my point .... due to the variances u cant compare

xoom says:

lol

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

if u want i said

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but u don't

xoom says:

the difference on the 2 days was simple

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

because you are comparing to your own previous results

xoom says:

1 was done during the day and high temps ..... the other was done @ night with cooler temps .....

xoom says:

this is the thing have u looked into how dyno software works ?

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

not in detail no

xoom says:

did u knw it uses the temp & humidity 2 influence the result ?

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

yeap

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

which u can alter

xoom says:

i learnt a very valuable lesson from a tuner when i 1st got into cars

xoom says:

he took the temp sensor and mounted it on my car in the front where it was cool and the car read 85kw

xoom says:

he then took the sensor and put it near the manifold where it was nice and hot and it read 110kw

xoom says:

25kw difference

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i am awareof that

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but that is why we can trust dyno dynamics standards

xoom says:

even dyno dynamics are swayed by temp & humidity figures ...... croydon autosports just got done for doing what i mentioned above

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

honest dyno operator will give u accurate read with slight differences

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

not much

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but enough to measure

xoom says:

2 use as a guide ?

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

to use to measure

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

and yes a guide

xoom says:

basically what im getting at is its not gospel because thats what a lot of new ppl 2 the performance arena think it is .... they think dyno graphs are the be all and ends all of performance

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i know that

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

before it gets longer, i want u to know i never said u r wrong bout benchmarking

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

which is why i said benchmark is obtianed by measure

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

which is what dyno is there to do

xoom says:

i think where this has gone pear shaped is i was arguing to the wider audience and u were argueing 2 me ignoring the others comments

xoom says:

lol

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

u can say that

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

as i said, i was never to attack your comment

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i just have a simple question and would like to discuss about it

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

and no, its not arguing to u

xoom says:

like i said i use dyno graphs as a guide 2 see if there has been a dramatic impact on performance otherwise the track is where i c if i have made a difference

xoom says:

please ask away

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

point is, we both have different view about dyno

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but end result is the same

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i go to dyno to measure my car

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

yeah there are variances, but is okay, because i take into account waht variances there are

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

you go to benchmark, by the meaning of, per dyno session

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but in the end, per run, u r measuring

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

u jump off

xoom says:

correct ..... but then the question is what are u using this measuring 4

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

u go in, u benchmark again at that days figure

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i measure my modifications

xoom says:

and this is where we differ in opinion

xoom says:

ill tell u this

xoom says:

to about 90-95% of accuracy i agree with u

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

fak getting sleepy

xoom says:

but this is exactly what bench marking is ..... i did A n got X extra and when i did B i got Y extra but what im saying is ur X & Y have the ability to be influenced so easily u need 2 be causious how much u read into them

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

yeah as i said, benchmarking stills requires measurement right?

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

just on your way of dynoing, put it that way. each run is a measure of benchmark

xoom says:

correct hence my examples regarding CPU & graphics card and sound system ..... but what im saying is that in this case mechanical bench marking is so varried with variances u cant put ur hand on ur heart and say thats 100%

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

no one should

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

which is why it varied

xoom says:

and this is why i stated on the forum for the guys not 2 treat their dyno graphs as life and death

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but some get it 100 percent the same

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

which is why different experience tells different story

xoom says:

look ive seen what ur talking about

xoom says:

does a benchmark

xoom says:

2 months later same dyno same car , same mods pulls the same power

xoom says:

i say this is the exception rather than the norm

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

could be

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

which to me is fine also

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

remember

xoom says:

but again u understand car etc etc

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

the varaince can be the same on that day too can it?

xoom says:

we are talkin 2 guys on a forum that dont understand this

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

is possible right?

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

not saying i hold true 100 percent

xoom says:

so same temp, humidty, tyre pressure etc on teh 2 days that were 2 months appart

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

well yeah

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

lets put it at that

xoom says:

i will say 2 u again the car could pull different figures

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

it could

xoom says:

how warm was the car.... even the oil can play a part

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but it could also pull the same figure

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

hence the word, it could

xoom says:

its all these variances that lead me 2 say it is a guide and not true measurability like a ruler ..... each time i measure my shoe its always 30cm

xoom says:

it will never change .... consistency

xoom says:

true benchmarking is about consistency

xoom says:

which doesnt exist here

xoom says:

am i correct ?

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

u r

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i never said u r wrong

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

just saying to benchmark, u need to measure

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

how u go on about it, thats your preference

xoom says:

hence y i say use it 2 guide ur decisions but it should only be used as partial input 2 the greater decision of did this benifit me

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

as i said, bottom line, u and I know what is there to do

xoom says:

and my only arguement is just that ..... make a judged decision on all the fact which may or may not also be formed by looking @ a graph

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

you gotta agree with me that to benchmark, there is a measurement

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

despite u just go 2 run

xoom says:

there needs 2 be a consistent measurement

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

per run itself is a measurement againts each other

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

yeah 2 run on 1 session

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

same day same minute, same waht ever

xoom says:

even then there are a **** load of influences but 2 a certain extent that is more accurate than 2 runs several hours/days/weeks or months apart

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

or else, there would be no point going to dyno

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

and no point in tuning

xoom says:

hence y i seperated tuning and cross mod benchmarking @ different times

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

well that is fine

xoom says:

as 2 seperate issues

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but i found my dyno places are accurate

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

or just about accurate if i must make it, more delicate

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

which makes it, for me, comparable

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

for my own car

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

not against he or she

xoom says:

ok mate i think we have reached some form of agreement ..... middle ground ..... and i totally get where ur coming from and i think u get where i am coming from and we have our different views

xoom says:

and thats cool

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

exactly

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

which is why i discuss with you

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

not to argue with you

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but looks like u r going to argue before

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

which is fine also to me

xoom says:

i just was like WTF is with the accusations against me

xoom says:

whom am i asking 2 follow me and how am i associated with CES

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

sorry for that

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

but it wasn't like that

Daniel Constantine Lheman says:

i could say then, not ces but trd

xoom says:

lol

[shaohaok]

Also from memory Danz you used to have a somewhat dubious dyno graph in your garage here that showed 91.# kw and about 6 months ago you went on a dyno day and only got 86kw atw - you werent happy.

:lol:

oi that's my biatch. go find your own.

plagiarism is BAD.

[eggbert_99]

Ok .. does anyone here have 10-15 dyno charts of the same car they can email me ??

For those who know about 6 Sigma (process improvement) ... 1 of the steps is called an MSA ( Measuring system analysis)

This is to essentially measure the measurer .......... and statistically prove how reliable and effective it can be.

EG. a real test i did was ... drew a line on a piece of paper ... gave the same ruler to 10 different ppl ... and got them to measure the length of the line.... Obviously i got slightly different results ...

when I plugged the numbers in to a statistical program (for all those stats ppl out there) my p values were <.01 hence suggesting that the variation amongst those 10 ppl was acceptable ...

So imagine .. line = car, ruler=dyno and 10 different ppl = different runs

If someone has 10-15 data points/dyno charts ... im more than happy to plug these numbers in and see if it is the same .. but i dont think so ...gut feel is that the numbers wont be good enough to stastically prove that a dyno is an accurate way to measure ....

Yes yes ... its still a way to measure .... but u can measure distance with a ruler or with a piece of string ??

If we want to start measuring against ourselves we really should make sure the tool we are using to measure is accurate ..

In fact

If 10 ppl had 10-15 dyno charts each ... i could stastically prove which "variables" impact a dyno the most..

does anyone have that kinda data I can play around with ??

[CHA54]

I've got a heap from the same car on the same dyno over a space of about 12 months, just dont have my scanner at the moment, I also have a few from another shops dyno for the same car where the figures were basically the same.

[kelvin33]

at least someone is using stats!!!

[Northy]

woot...CES FTW

[Dead]

Holy sh!t.

While I was sleeping something was stirring indeed. Faaark.

Here is my reply to all of this:

I've got a car

I've got a little red shiny car

I just like driving it

It goes 'broom broom'

Random fact no. 2490: John Howards eyebrows have individual names

[negatron]

Bill, that post was too long.

Hand over your moderator badge now to give me back the lost time in scrolling the page down.

[Dead]

Don't say that otherwise bill will go rouge lol

["RuNx"]

Lets sum it up:

1) If we want to tune our cars to get the best out of new mods = "All we have is a dyno to use".

2) If we want a power read out or to gauge what our cars are doing since mods have been done = "All we have is a dyno to use..BUT... There are way too many (variables) that come into play; If you are to take this figure seriously and to state MY CAR IS PUTTING OUT XXX KW on the dyno...Your kind of kidding yourself! Especially when getting mods and tunning done at some dodgey work shops they have been known to tweek the settings on the dyno's to give a better than normal readings so that it makes their work look better....ETC...ETC...ETC..... The variables roll on temp, humidity, wheel diametre, tyre pressure, if it is a leap year and if it was a full moon the night before you have dynoed blaaah bllaahhh.

3) If you wanna play DYNO KING AND QUEENS = Save your money get your block pulled out after doing all the mods you are planning and get it "ENGINE DYNOED"!!!!

WHO GIVES 2 PIECES OF SH17 WHAT KIND OF KW ARE BEING PUT OUT ON A CAR SIZED TREADMILL GET EM ON THE TRACK AND BENCH MARK AGAINST SOMETHING YOU KNOW IS QUICKER THAN YOUR CAR!! :D :P THEN YOU CAN SAY YOUR CAR IS BETTER OR WORSE :D :D

lovin the new smilies!!!

[specialized32]

sad its after all only a corolla

[CAP]

sad its after all only a corolla

[kelvin33]

specialised32.... the most innovative sentice in the thread :)

[Mintos]

what? what sort of resolution was that? what happened to the race? we want blood!

As a secondary conclusion, what can be gathered is this:

* dyno's are a measuring tool

* they are not a 100% accurate measuring tool that has multiple influencing factors including:

- air temp

- humidity

- tyre pressure (size also influences the uncorrected torque measured)

- fan usage/placement

- tautness of vehicle tie down

* dyno's therefore may be still used to benchmark and compare however not to a highly accurate extent - eg. measuring the measly possible 5kw power gain from a CAI on a corolla that is already making around 100kw atw, especially if the dynos are performed with highly varying factors as mentioned above. eg 2. an RB25 R33 makes 250kw atw on a dyno, then a corolla comes onto the same dyno and makes 100kw. Comparitively it can be said that the corolla would get munched

* the track is the traditional place to measure vehicle performance - BUT it still suffers from similar factors to a dyno as well as others...

- air temp

- quality of traction (tyre size, rubber compound, road quality)

- clutch

- and an even bigger accuracy descriminator - the DRIVER!

* therefore the only absolute conclusion is to go on a forum, compare figures/track times and argue about whose car is better

that is also interesting about Croydon getting r@ped for dyno tampering, hehe. I know heaps of guys that get their Nissan work done there, they seem(ed) like a reputable mob.

Edited October 2, 2006 by Mintos