Lowered Lift point a la hydra

[highlift]

Thought you guys and gals might find this interesting. This is a dyno chart of a Corolla S [same 2ZZGE] tuned with a Hydra EMS [www.hydraems.com] and alternately with a camcon device.

This REAAAALLY shows the power of a standalone EMS versus a piggy back like the camcon. The power output is about the same, but the way power is delivered is so drastically different. Lift engages ~5200rpm and that power band just looks divine. Lazy shifting and you're still landing lift, but with oodles of power. The torque graphs werent posted where i got this graph..

Edited March 6, 2007 by highlift

[MR22ZZ]

is there a torque curve to go with that, it seems like a stupidly low place to point the change over. I thought 5500-5800 was ideal. Or has this car had cam work done?

[highlift]

is there a torque curve to go with that, it seems like a stupidly low place to point the change over. I thought 5500-5800 was ideal. Or has this car had cam work done?

I'd have to ask about the torque graph but what determine's ideal? the way how the highcam performs jsut looks insane. That almost 3K of highcam, imagine the possiblities... :D

[MR22ZZ]

the ideal spot is at the overlap of the torque and power curves of the 2 cams.

Just as the 1st cam is dropping off of power the 2nd one should kick in.

The guys who have gone to the ApexiPFC over here have dropped it to ~5600-5800 RPM

[-JC-]

the ideal spot is at the overlap of the torque and power curves of the 2 cams.

Just as the 1st cam is dropping off of power the 2nd one should kick in.

The guys who have gone to the ApexiPFC over here have dropped it to ~5600-5800 RPM

This man knows what he is talking about.

As I mentioned once previously, Corey gave me lift @ 4000rpm one night whilst I was driving his car, basically made a whole heap of noise and fell into a torque hole. Went slower than a stock sportivo till it hit about 5500rpm.

[xoom]

hmmmm i wonder y there is a flat spot from about 5000 - 5400 i wonder what the low cam would be doing at that time in that rev range

[MR22ZZ]

my thoughts exactly Bill.

a change over at 5500 looks ideal for that car.

[xoom]

my thoughts exactly Bill.

a change over at 5500 looks ideal for that car.

it would look that way ...... but considering the car was on a dyno and getting tuned from the looks of things they should have just done a run with lift change over at 6600 and another with lift change over @ 4500 and then they should overlap the 2 runs and see where along the graph is the best point 2 switch over i.e. where the high cam is producing more power than the low cam ....... simple bit of work but a hard concept for some to understand for some reason

[CHA54]

what about the other changes required that go hand-in-hand with the lift point like the igntion map and fuel map?

No point just doing two runs with the different cut points if you're not making all the other fine adjustments to get the true picture.

[xoom]

what about the other changes required that go hand-in-hand with the lift point like the igntion map and fuel map?

No point just doing two runs with the different cut points if you're not making all the other fine adjustments to get the true picture.

just trying to simplify it 4 ppl 2 understand jase ..... i mean if they cant get the simple concept i just described how r u expecting them 2 understand the rest of the variables u just threw in ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[Suprathai]

Well they were tuning the vehicle on the dyno, so I believe that those were optimum settings.

Well to give you more info, head over to newcelica.org.

BTW the following are the specifications of the vehicle

2005 Corolla XRS

Injen CAI

P&P Stock Header/Race Header

Full 2.5" Mandrel Exhaust Decat/No Resonator

Bored 68mm TB

Hondata IM Gasket

The two graphs are comparing ported and polished header VS a prototype race header. The original developer said this is his version 1 type header while giving a huge gain in midrange rpm didn't produce the top end power that he expected, so its looking promising as the best header for the 2zzge at the moment is generally a ported version of the stock header!!

If its not too expensive and goes into production it is definitely worth taking a look at...even shipping it all the way from the US!!

Cheers

Edited March 7, 2007 by Suprathai

[SILVABULLIT]

Well they were tuning the vehicle on the dyno, so I believe that those were optimum settings.

Well to give you more info, head over to newcelica.org.

BTW the following are the specifications of the vehicle

2005 Corolla XRS

Injen CAI

P&P Stock Header/Race Header

Full 2.5" Mandrel Exhaust Decat/No Resonator

Bored 68mm TB

Hondata IM Gasket

The two graphs are comparing ported and polished header VS a prototype race header. The original developer said this is his version 1 type header while giving a huge gain in midrange rpm didn't produce the top end power that he expected, so its looking promising as the best header for the 2zzge at the moment is generally a ported version of the stock header!!

If its not too expensive and goes into production it is definitely worth taking a look at...even shipping it all the way from the US!!

Cheers

Why get them from the states when CES our forum sponsor already do them....

[Suprathai]

I already know about the CES ported headers. But lets see if this developer can come up with something that out performs the conventional port and polished headers and give us a bit more top end ommpf!! Personally I'm not a big fan at the moment with the abrupt change into the high cam mode at 6K rpm, I wished it was a bit more linear...time to get a power fc which means alot of money...:(

Cheers

Edited March 7, 2007 by Suprathai

[xoom]

with a proper tune the power curve is a lot more linear and the transition into the high cam is not as agressive ..... this is y im looking at the dyno sheet above and in all honesty that flat spot just doesnt look right .... my 2 cents worth ......

[Suprathai]

Those flat spots were already present with the ported headers but more apparant with the prototype headers....more tuning is needed I suppose....but now that you mention it.......there are two flat spots........unless I'm wrong.

It sucks if our Sportivo lift point is the same as the US XRS...just imagine lift at 6800rpm

Edited March 8, 2007 by Suprathai

[Northy]

the flat spot between 5,000 and 5,500 is because they have moved the lt point too low, 5700rpm is the best change over point...also the fact they are making peak power at 7,250rpm is also a little suspect.....these may be the sort of short comings that the hydra EMS is vulnerable to....

[CHA54]

the hydra is a fully programmable aftermarket ECU with closed loop cam control...

It's much more versatile than a powerfc. The power at 7250 would be due to the tuner, not the ECU.