Hole between 1st and 2nd in Sportivo

[joefish1298]

1st post, so hi, I'm Jezz.

Ok, I'm sure this topic has been done to death, but I did a search and checked the "look here first" thread but couldn't find what I was after.

The massive power hole between 1st and 2nd gear is really starting to **** me. I was thinking it needs to rev higher in 1st before figuring out you would need to rev to 10000rpm in 1st to land in lift in 2nd. Obviously not an option. Shorter 2nd gear? Maybe but then that would ruin 2nd to 3rd. Taller 1st, nah it's already too slow off lift in 1st. VVTLi Controller to move the lift point down a little lower?

So the question is, what's the best way to get rid of/mask/lessen the impact etc etc of the off lift hole between 1st and 2nd? And why the hell did they design it like this in the first place? It doesn't happen in an Integra TypeR, redline in 1st shift to 2nd and you land straight at the VTEC point??

Thanks.

[Punk_200sx]

You basically have to learn to drive it.

I couldn't lift between 1st and second when i first got my sportivo. Now it is very rare for to me not to maintain lift during a 1 to 2 gear change. You don't CAI or a short shifter to do it. Just gotta be perfect on the clutch, accelerator and gear change.

When you get it, you will get it.

[MT]

its technically* impossible to land a 1-2 change in lift in a stock corolla sportivo because of the gear ratios. You can however land it if you slip the clutch slightly and get on the throttle while the clutch is still in. as punkrolla said, this takes practice you will get used to it. The car came like that because toyota put 16" wheels on it. they really wanted 17" wheels but this would have made the problem worse.

options for removing the torque hole.... i'll start with cheapest and work my way up.

1. CAI - helps, but doesnt solve the problem. more useful for top end. $300 - $400

2. Buy some 15" wheels and smaller tyres, will shorten the gear ratio's for you. However, speedo will be out completely, and the car wont look to good. $500-800

3. 2.5" exhaust system (see forum sponsor CES) also helps more than the CAI, and more in conjunction with CAI, but still wont solve your problem completely. $900ish new or cheaper if u can find one second hand

4. Power FC - with the PFC you can tune the car so that the high cam comes on lower (usually about 5700/5800 is optimal), but i wouldnt up the rev limiter as you can say bye bye valve train or worse engine block if your not careful. $1500 - 2000 incl tuning

5. Short ratio gearbox - speak with Meridan Motorsport (VIC) or Monkey Wrench Racing in the US. $$$$$$

6. Stroking to 2ltr - will solve the problem, but... $$$$$$

7. Forced induction - Problem solved ;) but... $$$$$$

Your choice mate ;)

* No Flaming allowed because its true

[JAZE55]

After a CAI and catback zorst landing the 1-2 shift in lift is effortless. Yeah they could of choose better gearing for our cars.

[MT]

also... how far out of lift are you landing????

when i miss-shift it lands about 5700/5800rpm.

if rev limit current is 8200, and lift is 6000rpm, and you think it'll need to go to 10000rpm to let you land, by my maths that means your changing into second and landing at.... 4200rpm

Thats where you should launch from!

[MR22ZZ]

16 inch wheels with 205/50r16 tyres will allow you to land lift every time :D

[MT]

16 inch wheels with 205/50r16 tyres will allow you to land lift every time :D

15 inch wheels with 195/55/r15 is even better :P

[Northy]

16 inch wheels with 205/50r16 tyres will allow you to land lift every time :D

15 inch wheels with 195/55/r15 is even better :P

PFC is better again

[MR22ZZ]

16 inch wheels with 205/50r16 tyres will allow you to land lift every time :D

15 inch wheels with 195/55/r15 is even better :P

PFC is better again

yep, winner!!!

[Suprathai]

I'm not sure if this is bad for your car or not, but when I shift gears driving 'normally', I make sure that the revs don't fall too much when I get to the next gear.

In saying that when I get off the clutch the engine revs would climb prolly 200rpm above its previous point and once the clutch goes in with the gear change its all nice and smooth........I hope that makes sense...

[SuperDave]

5. Short ratio gearbox - speak with Meridan Motorsport (VIC) or Monkey Wrench Racing in the US. $$$$$$

* No Flaming allowed because its true

The C-One ratios plus final drive cost about 4 grand at current excange rates and that obviously doesn't include the housing, synchros, bearings, shipping or taxes. So a safe guess would be a final price of 7.5 grand fitted without mates rates or the like. I think I could live without it :P

PFC is therefore the best solution after some practice.

*And no micky I'm not flaming

Edited September 27, 2007 by SuperDave

[MT]

hahah nah dave, i meant no flaming because i said its technically impossible to land lift 1-2. everyone gets too excited and defensive when i say that :P

[theDefiant1]

I'm not sure if this is bad for your car or not, but when I shift gears driving 'normally', I make sure that the revs don't fall too much when I get to the next gear.

In saying that when I get off the clutch the engine revs would climb prolly 200rpm above its previous point and once the clutch goes in with the gear change its all nice and smooth........I hope that makes sense...

Here here!

[MR22ZZ]

I'd rather get the KAAZ gear set over the C-One anyway.

[MT]

I'd rather get the KAAZ gear set over the C-One anyway.

Kaaz $4k C-one $2.5k

Look exactly the same to me, have the same ratios as well.

anyone know what the difference is?

[ADDZZ]

a lot of ppl have already said it but i'm gonna say it. LEARN TO SHIFT. My car is completely stock and since buying i never miss lift from 1st to 2nd if i try. to be honest i don't understand how it could be so difficult.

[xoom]

3. 2.5" exhaust system (see forum sponsor CES) also helps more than the CAI, and more in conjunction with CAI, but still wont solve your problem completely. $900ish new or cheaper if u can find one second hand

4. Power FC - with the PFC you can tune the car so that the high cam comes on lower (usually about 5700/5800 is optimal), but i wouldnt up the rev limiter as you can say bye bye valve train or worse engine block if your not careful. $1500 - 2000 incl tuning

7. Forced induction - Problem solved ;) but... $$$$$$

* No Flaming allowed because its true

a modified 3 for me as i'd prefer 3" exhaust and option 4 & 7 ;) ;) ;)

And Mick u can land lift on the 1->2 in stock form :P :P :P :P :P

[MR22ZZ]

I'd rather get the KAAZ gear set over the C-One anyway.

Kaaz $4k C-one $2.5k

Look exactly the same to me, have the same ratios as well.

anyone know what the difference is?

really? I thought the prices were the other way around hence why I would prefer the KAAZ.

[GtiRboy]

Yeah, if you just put practice into your gear changes you can land lift into 2nd easily. It used to be hard for me and i would miss and hit around 5700-5800rpm which is where you will really feel the slug, but now i just change gears and almost everytime land straight into lift without even thinking on how to do it properly.

[joefish1298]

also... how far out of lift are you landing????

when i miss-shift it lands about 5700/5800rpm.

if rev limit current is 8200, and lift is 6000rpm, and you think it'll need to go to 10000rpm to let you land, by my maths that means your changing into second and landing at.... 4200rpm

Thats where you should launch from!

Well maybe I screwed up, but the maths I used was:

First I figured out where lift hits in 2nd, which seems smack bang on 80kmh. Then I drove dead on 40kmh in 1st and checked the revs ~5000-5100rpm. Double that to give me the 80kmh I need to land in lift when changing to 2nd (without keeping the throttle nailed during the shift or other techniques) and you have ~10000rpm.

Thanks for the info and options BTW guys (and gals) :D

[NIKICH]

Im pretty sure the maximum that you can squeeze out of first is 70 - 72 km

[Punk_200sx]

its technically* impossible to land a 1-2 change in lift in a stock corolla sportivo because of the gear ratios. You can however land it if you slip the clutch slightly and get on the throttle while the clutch is still in. as punkrolla said, this takes practice you will get used to it. The car came like that because toyota put 16" wheels on it. they really wanted 17" wheels but this would have made the problem worse.

options for removing the torque hole.... i'll start with cheapest and work my way up.

1. CAI - helps, but doesnt solve the problem. more useful for top end. $300 - $400

2. Buy some 15" wheels and smaller tyres, will shorten the gear ratio's for you. However, speedo will be out completely, and the car wont look to good. $500-800

3. 2.5" exhaust system (see forum sponsor CES) also helps more than the CAI, and more in conjunction with CAI, but still wont solve your problem completely. $900ish new or cheaper if u can find one second hand

4. Power FC - with the PFC you can tune the car so that the high cam comes on lower (usually about 5700/5800 is optimal), but i wouldnt up the rev limiter as you can say bye bye valve train or worse engine block if your not careful. $1500 - 2000 incl tuning

5. Short ratio gearbox - speak with Meridan Motorsport (VIC) or Monkey Wrench Racing in the US. $$$$$$

6. Stroking to 2ltr - will solve the problem, but... $$$$$$

7. Forced induction - Problem solved ;) but... $$$$$$

Your choice mate ;)

* No Flaming allowed because its true

I don't know if 16's make a diff cuz i havee 18's with 225/35 tyres with 30mm lower susp atm (cusco will arrive next week) and stock engine and stock shifter hits lift no probs, no clutch slip or wheels spin required .

[Suprathai]

1st usually takes me to 75-77km/h.....

[MT]

I don't know if 16's make a diff cuz i havee 18's with 225/35 tyres with 30mm lower susp atm (cusco will arrive next week) and stock engine and stock shifter hits lift no probs, no clutch slip or wheels spin required .

Hey mate, its simple maths. If u make the overall circumference of the wheels smaller, this will chance the final drive ratio and make the car accelerate quicker, hence making it easier to land in lift 1- 2. With 17's they would have wanted to make the tyres a bigger size as well as 40 profile they consider too small for a stock car. Therefore it would have had bigger wheels and slower acceleration.

The 18's your running now will have close to the exact circumference as the standard wheels, so shouldn't make much difference at all.

[JF-GEE4CE]

better then all the options above is to learn to shift.... seriously!!! it shouldnt take 3 and a half hours to shift 1st -2nd. stretch 1st harder and if you still cant land lift dont be afraid to get close to the limiter and if you still cant land lift theres something wrong with you.... like punk rolla said earlier he has 18's on and he can land lift.. sure the diameters will be similar but what about the weight im sure a set of 18's are heavier then the stock 16's.