Handling Bars

[Guni]

As my savings approaches critical mass for my cusco zero 2, I'm wandering if there is such a thing as too many bars. Stivos AFAIK come with standard 19mm rear sway bars so that they do not have too much oversteer as being a FWD, that would be disasterous. I'm aiming towards a more nuetral setup with use of the car for occasional track. Perhaps once a month or something ???

I'm definately getting Zero 2 so my question is will the following bars be overkill or will they just be "OK" ???

Front Strut

Lower Front Bar

Rear Lower Bar

Rear Anti Roll Bar ( They come in 16mm or 19mm)

I have thoughts about getting all of them and use it with my Cusco Zero 2.

A bit over kill you think? Too bumpy of a ride? Too stiff? Oversteer is imminent?

[Blind Kid Seeks]

I cant speak from experience as i havent driven a sportivo with all these mods...

But i think you need to think hard about what you are trying to achieve with your car...

Are you trying to build a track car you use daily or are you planning taking your daily to the track.

i know its much of a muchness... but hey... i think do each bar one at a time... and take it to the track after each mod. at least that way you will have your own experience and be able to guage with lap times if you have improved the cars handling or if you have made it more difficult to drive.

good luck with it.. and i look forward to hearing how its all going.

[Guni]

i plan to go track occasionally with my daily car ..

[wil_rolla]

i don't think that it will be over kill if you plan to take your car out on to the tracks.

like you i plan to take my daily out to the tracks not my track car out daily.

i don't think it's over kill cause you are improving on different things, like lower bracings is for tightening your chassis, and anti roll bar is for less roll.

and driving normal you wouldn't even notice that you had them on. unlike coilover (where they are always bumpy).

IMO i wouldn't really suggest the front strut bar as it dose very little, from what i can remember your from melbourne, and if you really want you can try my front strut brace. and if you really want one then you can get one ;)

i haven't seen an anti roll bar like that on one of our corolla's before, people usually go for the straight replacement rear sway bar.

correct me if i'm wrong but a 1zz rear sway bar is thicker then the sportivo swaybar, if you like i also have a spare one of those if you wanna try it aswell, i think its about 21mm <<< not sure tho. but deffently thicker then a sportivo one.

as i upgraded mine to a trd sway bar which is 23mm

[SILVABULLIT]

Considering the majority of your car's use is general commuting on public roads I wouldn't bother with any of that underbody braces etc etc. That is really only going to be of any use for consistant track use for the serious competitor who is competiting in a championship season. Not necessary for someone like yourself who wants a fang around a track every now and then.

Combined with the cusco's I'd add a strut brace of some sort and a heavier rear sway bar. Whiteline is a good option and isn't expensive or TRD is a lil dearer.

This set up will have your car handling very nicely indeed with good turn in and will tie the back down to follow where ever the front is pointed without fuss. A lot of members here make the mistake with a FWD car by putting a heavier front sway on the front and the rear. All this does is stiffen up the front the same as the back and make the turn in even more fragile. More understeer as the front is stiff and can't keep the wheels on the ground.

If you are going to put on a front sway then you MUST go one stage/level heavier in the rear. The secret to make a front wheel drive car handle is to keep the front relatively soft to a degree and keep the drive wheels on the ground at all times and harden up the rear so it simply just follows the front and doesn't do it's own thing and unsettle the front. If you get your front camber set right then turn will be sharp and precise and the rear wheels will simply follow where the front is pointed. I also would look into a slightly heavier spring rate on the rear too. Did this with putting super lows in the rear over the slightly softer lows in my car. works a treat.

If you are not going to be hitting the track regularly then going stiff all round will make for an uncomfortable commmuter ride for everyday use and make things like getting into sharp angle driveways etc a hassle as you'll be lifintg front wheels and getting hung up. My car used to lift a rear wheel all the time but the fronts always remained on the ground.

this topic will be moved to the suspension thread.

[Kenneth]

waw.. excellent write up sb :)

[Guni]

So just get the front tower strut and the 2 rear lower bars to even things out?

[SuperDave]

Just remember there is no such thing as having a chassis that is too stiff. However you can reach a point where you are just adding weight for no gain. I'm not saying that these braces from the forum sponser aren't worth buying or implying anything. It is hard to say how well those rear braces work, but the only way to find out is by giving it a go. To me they look like they would reduce the understeer a bit by effectively adding more rear anti roll.

But those 3 things look to be the most useful out of the options. You'll need to have your pioneering pants on, as no one else on here has tried these on their ZZE's before.

[SILVABULLIT]

So just get the front tower strut and the 2 rear lower bars to even things out?

Just put a heavier sway on the rear and see if you like it. The chassis braces are for serious track work and not really designed for on road use.

[DANZZT231]

Just buy the front strut bar, that definitely help the soft chassis of the corolla. Then if u wish, buy the rear chassis brace by TRD, C-One or Beatrush (the same as C-one by the look of it, and i don't know why its called rear strut bar as its not fitted to the strut top of the rear). And do buy strut bar that don't flex, and the best one I've seen is TRD. Even Cusco flex a little but that is still ok. Something adjustable is not reccommended because majority is less rigid than single piece like TRD, and the reason why its adjustable its because some car the chassis is permanently out of allignment already, and that's where it requires adjustable strut bar to fit.

Other than that, its a bit overkill. Unless you really need it for fine tuning the way the car behave. And just because its available doesn't mean you need all of them.

Plus, the way I see it, the front strut bar and TRD rear chassis brace have a 2nd function to keep the chassis alligned together for a long period of time (read above)- that's if your driving style causes the chassis to flex. So only those two are, in my opinion, worth buying.

By the way, if you install zero 2 with its stiff spring rate, you may not need swaybar especially if you are running stiff sidewall tyres. So do it one part at a time and see if its really needed. Remember, swaybar is there to help the shock absorber as a supporter and not the main player (shock absorber) in suspension tuning.

Good luck!

Edited July 7, 2008 by DANZZT231

[Blind Kid Seeks]

So just get the front tower strut and the 2 rear lower bars to even things out?

Just put a heavier sway on the rear and see if you like it. The chassis braces are for serious track work and not really designed for on road use.

X2

[SuperDave]

i don't know why its called rear strut bar as its not fitted to the strut top of the rear

It is called a strut not because it is connected to the strut tops. It is an engineering term as a strut takes a compressive stress, while a cable takes a tensile stress. That is why a dampener is also called a strut as they are there to take compressive forces.

By the way, if you install zero 2 with its stiff spring rate, you may not need swaybar especially if you are running stiff sidewall tyres. So do it one part at a time and see if its really needed. Remember, swaybar is there to help the shock absorber as a supporter and not the main player (shock absorber) in suspension tuning.

There is still a difference changing the rear anti roll bar even with the Cusco Zero 2, even with stiff sidewalls. I know because I took it part at a time, the first rule of setup ;)

If you are going to put on a front sway then you MUST go one stage/level heavier in the rear. The secret to make a front wheel drive car handle is to keep the front relatively soft to a degree and keep the drive wheels on the ground at all times and harden up the rear so it simply just follows the front and doesn't do it's own thing and unsettle the front.

I haven't had a chance to test it, but on stock suspension the front anti roll bar does help. The car in question already had a rear anti roll bar fitted, however lap times did improve with the addition of the front anti roll bar.

[J e r e M y]

Oh my..thats alot of bars! :P

[whitestivo]

Rear sway bar is best suspension mod you'll make for the dosh. SB knows his stuff.

I've done it to more than one car, is best mod.

As for the rest, maybe you money is better spent on some new pads (bleed lines as well) or a nice set of semi slicks if you are that keen on going to the track.

I'll bet semi's will cost less than all those bars, and drop your time much further.

whitestivo

[doublezero]

The front and rear chassis bars make the car quite uncomfortable on daily drives after I installed my ones.

Just would like to know how many people here have really tried the front sway bar and what are their experiences.

C-one makes the front sway bars and if it makes the car worse off then they wouldn't have made one right?

[SuperDave]

Just would like to know how many people here have really tried the front sway bar and what are their experiences.

I haven't had a chance to test it, but on stock suspension the front anti roll bar does help. The car in question already had a rear anti roll bar fitted, however lap times did improve with the addition of the front anti roll bar.

Everyone has their own preference with setup, but I liked it on stock suspension. I haven't tried it with coilovers.

How do you mean

The front and rear chassis bars make the car quite uncomfortable on daily drives after I installed my ones

In what way is it uncomfortable? I am curious to know.

[doublezero]

Just would like to know how many people here have really tried the front sway bar and what are their experiences.

I haven't had a chance to test it, but on stock suspension the front anti roll bar does help. The car in question already had a rear anti roll bar fitted, however lap times did improve with the addition of the front anti roll bar.

Everyone has their own preference with setup, but I liked it on stock suspension. I haven't tried it with coilovers.

How do you mean

The front and rear chassis bars make the car quite uncomfortable on daily drives after I installed my ones

In what way is it uncomfortable? I am curious to know.

The rigity of the car increased quite well but since the city roads in New Zealand is quite bumpy, the effects of the bump increased as well.

[SILVABULLIT]

the bars to make the chassis stiffer will certainly cause road bumps and dimps to transfer more through the car because it is stiffer. So yes they do their job but do you need them to drive on the street if you aren't hitting the track every other day?? My answer is no. Spend your money on something worthwhile.

PS - Hi JC... go the Maroons!!

[-JC-]

PS - Hi JC... go the Maroons!!

Can we get a mod in here to clean up all this spam please?

[doublezero]

SB is right. You wouldn't be using the full potential of the bars if you are'nt hitting the tracks but you do feel the improvements during your daily drives. I dun hit the track that often too but I was able to get the bars with my sway bars for a good price so i ordered them as well. I don't regret getting them because of the price. I think if you would get a better improvement if you go with lightweight flywheel, clutch and then lsd which would be awesome!

[KaZe-]

ive currently got

Cusco Zero 2

TRD front strut

TRD rear strut

TRD rear sway bar

im looking at mayb getting a front under brace or front whiteline sway bar atm but as for my current setup i think its fine not too stiff and not too bumpy and corners pretty well =]

Edited July 11, 2008 by KaZe-

[Guni]

As my savings approaches critical mass for my cusco zero 2, I'm wandering if there is such a thing as too many bars. Stivos AFAIK come with standard 19mm rear sway bars so that they do not have too much oversteer as being a FWD, that would be disasterous. I'm aiming towards a more nuetral setup with use of the car for occasional track. Perhaps once a month or something ???

I'm definately getting Zero 2 so my question is will the following bars be overkill or will they just be "OK" ???

Front Strut

Lower Front Bar

Rear Lower Bar

Rear Anti Roll Bar ( They come in 16mm or 19mm)

I have thoughts about getting all of them and use it with my Cusco Zero 2.

A bit over kill you think? Too bumpy of a ride? Too stiff? Oversteer is imminent?

After much contemplation and consideration, I've decided to install the bars first ahead of the CUSCO Zero 2 as the aussie dollar is dropping and it is no longer financially viable for me. Furthermore, I have to reflect on the real purpose/use of my car (which is daily commuting and to work/client's place) so it would be a fair bit of driving and i wouldn't want to vibrate the crap out of my car or me.

I want something that kills the corners and yet be gentle enough to go over bumps without me knowing i'm going over a bump. So after much convincing from BKS and some advise from SB, I've decided to go KYB + Kings.

After installing the bars, found that it really helped a lot even on the stock suspension. Remember in my first post I was considering almost everything the forum sponsor has to offer our cars or similar and since no one has ever tried it (no one even knows if that will fit!!!), I decided to take one for the team (the things I do for you guys ;) ). The result was unexpected and almost surprising. If not because of physics, I would have kept my car the ride height as it is on now with stockies but lowering it will give me a better center of gravity.

I'm still on stock height atm but the new sussy will go in sometime in the next few weeks.

Ultra Racing 2 Point Strut Bar

Ultra Racing Rear Control Arm Bar

Whiteline Replacement Rear Sway

[Guni]

The reason I didn't install a lower front bar is because SB said to keep the front soft to a degree so that the wheels can do its job while making the rear hard enough so that it goes where the front goes and not do its own thing and unsettle everything. Furthermore, I already have a strut bar. We'll see how that goes after I change the sussy. If I feel I still need it then I'll get it :)

As for me going for the whiteline rear sway instead of the UR 16mm rear anti roll bar, it was economics ;) and i doubt it will make much diff. Stockies are 19mm + 16mm might make it a little stiffer but I was afriad it would be too stiff.

Anywho the whiteline is 22mm (i think) + the rear control arm bar, should make the backside just right as I have felt.

Yum ....

[wil_rolla]

nice work guni... looking good... and i bet it all made a huge difference.. which do you think made the most improvement..

[Guni]

The replacement rear sway and front strut.

the TRD one is 24mm which should elimate the need for the rear control arm bar altogether but see how you like or want it. I had the whiteline rear sway first and then added the control arm bar. It felt more stable at the rear aroound corners. It hard enough but not too hard.

More pics.