kW expectancies?

[midnight]

Hi guys.

Just a few things from me tonight.

1. Is 3-400kW an ok power figure to expect from a fully worked 4AGZE? :P

2. What sort of turbo setup would be best suited to this kind of power figures?

3. Would the motor handle it?

Im not giving too much away. So dont bother asking what its going in, what its for, or why..........then again............

Why? Because I can. :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

[grima88]

Hi guys.

Just a few things from me tonight.

1. Is 3-400kW an ok power figure to expect from a fully worked 4AGZE? :P

2. What sort of turbo setup would be best suited to this kind of power figures?

3. Would the motor handle it?

Im not giving too much away. So dont bother asking what its going in, what its for, or why..........then again............

Why? Because I can. :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

Since its a 4AGZE its supercharged (yea I noe I'm captain obvious lol), so r u saying u want to take the supercharger out or run a twincharger system???

O and btw 3-400Kw is huge man not to dishearten u (and b a scepticist) but ur gona hav to spend an absolute fark-load of money to get a 4AGZE to that level of power (if its even possible)

Edited September 28, 2006 by grima88

[Suprathai]

Problem is defining fully worked...

4AGZE...300kw....going to 400kw is asking heaps.

[sportiyo]

thats alot for a small motor,and the gearbox..watch out for the gearbox..

[midnight]

Hi guys.

Just a few things from me tonight.

1. Is 3-400kW an ok power figure to expect from a fully worked 4AGZE? :P

2. What sort of turbo setup would be best suited to this kind of power figures?

3. Would the motor handle it?

Im not giving too much away. So dont bother asking what its going in, what its for, or why..........then again............

Why? Because I can. :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

Since its a 4AGZE its supercharged (yea I noe I'm captain obvious lol), so r u saying u want to take the supercharger out or run a twincharger system???

O and btw 3-400Kw is huge man not to dishearten u (and b a scepticist) but ur gona hav to spend an absolute fark-load of money to get a 4AGZE to that level of power (if its even possible)

No supercharger, Just I heard somewhere that the Z motor is stronger then the normal 4AGE.

Money wont be an issue, Just mean I have to save up for longer.

Problem is defining fully worked...

Not a single thing left to modify?

thats alot for a small motor,and the gearbox..watch out for the gearbox..

Gearbox wont be a problem. The only standard thing on it will be the outer casing. (Its getting either Straightcut or Strengthened Helical gears).

[MR22ZZ]

have a look at FLYNSX

4 engines later... he gets 250kw. 300 is possible but a big ask. There is a drag car that put out around those numbers but is not street registerable and 100K has been put into the engine alone (you can tell its all gone to the engine when you look at the rest of the car)

[CHA54]

300kw is achievable, 400kw is getting right up there and in block-splitting territory. With 400kw it will not be streetable as you'll wash down the cylinder walls on idle with the fuel from the very large injectors. Motec will be required to control such large injectors too. Sam Rigoli got 320ish KW from her 4agte with a lot of boost.

On of the NZ guys got 330kw atw from his "fully built" 7agte at 27psi: http://www.twincam.org/forums/index.php?sh...=18070&st=0

If you're "fully working" the motor, then there's no need to start with a 4agze, a smallport 4age has the same crank, block and head... thats about all the stock parts you'll want to use anyway.

You'll be replacing the rods, pistons, valves, cams, springs, retainers, injectors, coils, etc etc, Having the motor fully balanced, using all ARP fasteners throughout, etc etc.

The supercharger wont get you anywhere near 150kw, so you will need a very large turbo.

if it's FWD the E series gearboxes can hold enough power, if it's RWD then it's simple enough to make an adapter plate to bolt up a strong RWD box (forget about custom gears in a T50 or W58, they wont hold the power).

edit: In terms of budget, have about $40K ready for the motor, clutch, box, turbo and pipework. Then have extra for the suspension, diff, brakes, cage etc. These are realistic figures too, not some number made up to scare you away. You can do it cheaper if you do EVERYTHING yourself, but I'm not sure if you have all the machinery and engine building skills required to make it reliable.

Edited September 29, 2006 by rollamods

[midnight]

Ok thanks guys.

How much do the Rally cars put out then?

[MR22ZZ]

~350kw with ~500nM of Torque or something crazy like that

they however use a 2L 3S-GTE as opposed to a 1.6L 4A-GTE ;)

[Roundy]

~350kw with ~500nM of Torque or something crazy like that

they however use a 2L 3S-GTE as opposed to a 1.6L 4A-GTE ;)

not quite right, they are restricted to 300hp (224kw) but they have stupid large amounts of torque due to the Anti-lag system helping them make 300hp low in the rev range.

[MR22ZZ]

cheers Nathan, I wasn't sure of the exact figure but I knew they were limitted by the regs. But yeah, they have some crazy torque figure

[midnight]

~350kw with ~500nM of Torque or something crazy like that

they however use a 2L 3S-GTE as opposed to a 1.6L 4A-GTE ;)

I cant go to the 2L, otherwise Id use an SR20DET.

Max. engine size I can use is a 1.6L

[Roundy]

hmms...it is certainly possible to get 300-400kw but you are talking cubic dollars.

basically you have to decide what it is for (which you seem to know) and what car it is going into (again u seem to know) and then what you can get away with.

ie. a FWD circuit car would have some issues with 300kw, but a rwd one less so.

the main issue is for even 'just' 300kw you are going to get a very savage boost ramp and a likely small powerband. The only form of motorsport i can see that been good for is drag-racing, and probably speed-boats (tho i have no grounding on them)

anything with corners you would be likely fighting the car on exit has the boost ramps up and tries to kill you B)

[Suprathai]

I wonder what is left of using the 4age as a platform for 300-400kw....block and head??

[sportiyo]

may i ask what the car is going to do? street, drag, drift...? because i think if you do get 300-400kw it wont be very easy to live with, and very not streetable(cause of the power to weight thingy). anyway have you thought about a rotary motor? they are pretty small and powerful

Edited September 29, 2006 by sportiyo

[midnight]

hmms...it is certainly possible to get 300-400kw but you are talking cubic dollars.

basically you have to decide what it is for (which you seem to know) and what car it is going into (again u seem to know) and then what you can get away with.

ie. a FWD circuit car would have some issues with 300kw, but a rwd one less so.

the main issue is for even 'just' 300kw you are going to get a very savage boost ramp and a likely small powerband. The only form of motorsport i can see that been good for is drag-racing, and probably speed-boats (tho i have no grounding on them)

anything with corners you would be likely fighting the car on exit has the boost ramps up and tries to kill you B)

It will be in a RWD setup.

may i ask what the car is going to do? street, drag, drift...? because i think if you do get 300-400kw it wont be very easy to live with, and very not streetable(cause of the power to weight thingy). anyway have you thought about a rotary motor? they are pretty small and powerful

Its for a road rally car.

The main reason for using the 4AGE is its 1.6L, which is max size I can go.

That power to weight ratio is important to me. Light, Small, and Nimble are what Im after, with a bit (ok..... Lots) of Fast thrown in for good measures.

AFAIK, rotarys arent able to be put in Sier..............oops, that wasnt sposed to come out.

[MT]

im still waiting for someone to pull out The Castle jokes

[CHA54]

do you need to run a turbo inlet restrictor in the class you intend to run in?

If so, that will limit the power a 4ag will make.

[midnight]

do you need to run a turbo inlet restrictor in the class you intend to run in?

If so, that will limit the power a 4ag will make.

I have no idea. I dont even know what Im going to run it in yet. Probably the Hillclimb out at Mt Cotton (anyone know if there is a website for this?), and events like Targa.

Basically, I want to build a (reasonably) street legal road rally car.

I dont want a 6 or 8 cos they use too much fuel.

I dont want big and bulky cos theyre slow unless they got uber huge amounts of power n torque.

I dont really want FWD as tehy torque steer with a bit of power.

I dont really want a RWD as they oversteer with a bit of power.

So that leaves......................A 4wd or AWD.

I could always go a Brumby, and put in the EJ20T, Id gain that oh so lovely burble, but then Id have to go find a Subaru forum (Not hard, Im registered on 2)....And then Id have to get a brumby.

But I wanted to be original. How many done up Sierras do you see? Like onroad done up......?

Does that make sence?

[CHA54]

I know of quite a few, one has a normal 16V 4ag, one a 20V with NOS, another with 4agte...

Have you any idea how much fuel ANY 300kw motor uses??

[SuperDave]

...Probably the Hillclimb out at Mt Cotton (anyone know if there is a website for this?)...

link

If you have never done any hill climbs give the "come and try" day a go and see if you like it.

[SILVABULLIT]

If you are going to have 3-400kw for a car to run hillclimb then I'd say to go and watch them for one as that sort of power using a turbo set up is going to be an absolute handfull and a useless power band. You need torque and a lot of it at the lower end of you rev range. current Australian hillclimb champ(from memory!!) runs a 2 litre Kombi motor modified with a big roots type S/C on top which gives it a heap of torque to get out of the corners quick and pulls up the hills with ease and not a million revs.

For rally it'll be too much as you need to get some power on the ground or you will literally destroy a set of tyres on every stage. That gets expensive. I also was going to mention the turbo restrictor for rally as you can only run a certain amount of boost as well.

I would do some more homework and look at engine options with a more usable power band as trying to do rally or hillclimb with that sort of power will be extremely hard to handle and reliability will be questionable.

cheers SB:)