Ethanol Fuel ??

[Flo_Jo]

Hi all,

Just wanting to get your opinion about Ethanol Fuel.

Due to skyrocketing fuel prices - now at 1.44 cents per litre - i am thinking of ways to reduce fuel costs. I have heard some mixed reviews from different pple. I am interested to hear about your experience.

Does anyone have any opinions of the Ethanol fuel blend?

Has anyone used this on a regular basis?

Any difference in performance?

If so, how is the fuel consumption?

appreciate your views!

cheers,d

[Whip Cracker]

Different vehicles react to Ethanol than others. From what I understand, Camrys don't like it at all. Corollas on the other hand, seem to like the stuff.

After researching Ethanol, I can say that I'm never using it in my car. Stuffs up fuel related parts and underperforms the engine. I wouldn't want to risk anything that can break the car...

I only use Shell fuel... I've tried heaps of fuels, and this works best. 95 or 98... depending on fuel prices :)

[11/16Aurion 12Kluger]

I've been using ethanol E10 in my 2001 V6 Camry now for over 2 years and it loves it.

Noticeable improvement in performance and economy and no problems.

The worst i've used is the Woolies or Shell(Coles) unleaded.

[jps137]

From toyota.com.au

Petrol Fuel blended with 10% Ethanol (E10)

For vehicles manufactured or imported by Toyota Australia:

TOYOTA (Passenger Models)

Locally produced Toyota models will operate satisfactorily on petrol fuel blended with 10% ethanol (E10) from the following production dates:

* Camry: from Jan 1987 (All electronic fuel injection models)

* Corolla: from July 1994

* Avalon: All

* Lexcen: All

(Note: Previous production and Corona model not recommended due to incompatability of material)

Enthanol blend greater than 10 % is not approved

All Toyota passenger vehicles fully imported by Toyota Australia will operate on petrol fuel blended with 10% ethanol (E10), except older models:

* Supra

* Cressida

* Paseo

* Starlet

(Note: E10 not recommended due to incompatiibility of material)

Enthanol blend greater than 10 % is not approved

TOYOTA (Commercial Models)

All Toyota Commercial vehicles imported by Toyota Australia will operated on petrol fuel blended with 10% ethanol (E10), except models fitted with a carburettor as listed:

* Coaster Bus: pre Jan 1993 (carburettor engine)

* Dyna: pre May 1995 (carburettor engine)

* Tarago: pre Oct 1996 (carburettor engine)

* Hilux: pre Aug 1997 (carburettor engine)

* Hiace: pre Aug 1997 (carburettor engine)

* 4 Runner: pre Aug 1997 (carburettor engine)

* Townace: pre Dec 1998 (carburettor engine)

* LandCruiser: pre Aug 1992 (carburettor & EFI engine)

(Note: E10 not recommended due to incompatibility of material) Enthanol blend greater than 10 % is not approved.

Personally I am sticking with 98 B)

[Speedz]

Tried that E10 stuff when it 1st came out... actually tried 3 tanks...

savings vs mileage loss is not worth it, mine is a Yaris and it was well abit more sluggish and its a manual and worst of all I actually got lower mileage per tank than the normal 91 or 95 juice... based on my experience I wont put those into the tank unless its 15 cent difference over the regular juice...

[Milgram]

I have never used E10 in my Camry and no matter how high petrol prices get, I refuse to use it. I'm suspicious of how well these blends are measured and am always weary of where independents like United Fuel here in Melbourne source their fuel from. Unlike NSW and QLD, the independents are the only brands to sell E10 at the present time.

I have tried a range of fuels in my car to varying success. I now religiously use Mobil 6000 (96RON) and have found this to give the best balance between extra performance and economy. Each time I fill up, I calculate my fuel consumption (distance travelled divided by litres used) and am consistently getting anything between 8.8-10.5L/100km.

The worst fuel I have tried is Shell V-Power. I honestly could not tell what the hype was about, the rough idling and poor economy really surprised me. What was even worse was the long queue due to the four cents off discount offered through Coles.

[Whip Cracker]

These must be the 1st times I've ever heard V-Power to be "bad" fuel.

I'm constantly gettin around 550-600km a tank from Shell... whether it's 95 octane or V-Power.

One thing I won't touch again - BP Ultimate. The price is stupidly high and I had less mileage.

[Wixy]

The worst fuel I have tried is Shell V-Power. I honestly could not tell what the hype was about, the rough idling and poor economy really surprised me. What was even worse was the long queue due to the four cents off discount offered through Coles.

lol

love the placebo effect, or lack of it, and when we get lack of it, its automatically bad, bad, bad.

reset your ecu before trying out a change in any fuel.

and u have to at least do it for 1-2mths to see the full effect and benefits out of using different types high oct. fuel.

if u did a search, that question/opinion would have not popped up.

its automatically assumed that high oct fuel = immediate savings in millage and total smoothness.

however thats not the case. high oct burns quicker, gives better performance, and if its the first time u use that stuff, of course your car will react shockingly to it.

ron95 fuels are just better for normal cars as the burn slower and dont detonate as much, hence your conclusion about mobil6000. 100bucks says if u put caltex (seeing its the same as mobil) or shell 95 it will be all the same - that is unless your mind doesnt play tricks on you to tell u M6000 is better....

when filling up at the station, theres alot of factors that will lead you to getting good or bad fuel. i posted it up here somewhere, just need to find it.

isnt bp ultimate the same price as vpower? im 100% sure it is. why would they ever charge more for ultimate over vpower, even vortex98 costs the same as ultimate...

Edited June 4, 2008 by Wixy

[supertownace]

i own and drive diesel engined vehicles so the E10 debate is a lost cause for me.....however......

as most of you (should)know ethanol is an alcohol based fuel. the likes of your shell v-power etc are all mineral based fuels. (incidently....these types of fuels have the bonus additive of an injector cleaner....which works very well i might add!!) this is why car makers list the vehicles that can handle alcohol fuel......its mainly to do with flexible fuel lines etc as some will swell up and go soft as they react to the ethanol.

you have all seen "top fuel" drag racing surely...to this end they all run alcohol based fuel mixed with varing amounts of nitro-methane.

the point im making is this.....

normal mineral based fuels work in engines designed with compression ratios around 7-9.5 to 1. anything higher and they start to rattle their heads off like a bunch of rocks going around in a cement mixer.

engines that use alcohol fuel exclusively run compression ratios around 13-15 to 1.

for an engine to run well and efficently on both fuels then a compromise in compression ratio must be found. this is usually around 10 to 1 give or take.

in a lot of cases an engine that is running rough after changing to E10 fuel may be due to the fact that all the carbon buildup inside the engine...intake manifold/fuel injectors/cylinder head/ piston crown/valves/exhaust manifold is being loosened and being passed through the engine. this is because alcohol based fuels are hygroscopic, that is they absorb water. water that is heated turns to steam and the steam softens and removes the carbon deposits. so in a way this is a good thing due to the "cleanup" effect.

one down side that E10 fuel has is that not only does it absorb a certain amount of water...it also holds in suspension and passes it through the entire fuel system...pump(s)/fuel lines/carb needle and seat/fuel injectors all can be (and usually are) affected. i guess i don't need to explain what partly blocked fuel injectors feel like at 100km/h!!

just my little bit of techy blurb......

cheers

[Whip Cracker]

In response to that lad...

BP Ultimate here (when I was using it for a month or so to test it out) was an extra 3-4 cents more than the 98 octane V-Power down the road.

And also.. that Ethanol info is useful. So.. it mixes with the water in the fuel system... burns it off... and loosens any carbon deposits in the engine??

So... Townace man... which would you recommend? Stay with normal fuel, or go with the Ethanol??

[supertownace]

like i said....im a diesel man....

my opinion on ethanol based/blended fuels i will keep to myself.

my suggestion is find a fuel that you like and are happy with and stick to it. there's nothing wrong with personal choice.

cheers

[Wixy]

In response to that lad...

BP Ultimate here (when I was using it for a month or so to test it out) was an extra 3-4 cents more than the 98 octane V-Power down the road.

what a travesty...thats just something thats not allowed...(though it probably is) if it were to happen here (vic) i think bp would go broke.

lol

might i add, i like your picture siggie at the bottom, from earliest to latest done ups, esp the 02-07 sportivo, now thats sexy.

[wishbone]

i have used the E10 from coles....and i hadnt noticed much apart from it being a lil sluggish......suppsdly BP ultimate is the best in the sense it cleans the engine.....bt i never have tried it.....Mobile seems to be alrite...bt way too much compared to shell and caltex....if u luv ur car u will only give it the best......

Edited July 28, 2008 by wishbone

[supertownace]

something else i just remembered.......

with all these "high octane" fuels around...one thing is common amongst them all....

that is...they ALL have injector cleaner in them to some extent.

when these fuels first came out they were the ducks nuts.....they all claimed big things(better fuel econmy etc)...so i tried them all over a period of time. back then fuel was around 70 cents/litre.

i kept an eye on EVERYTHING to do with the fuel system in my car(1977 XC hardtop...nice thumpy pushrod v8...went like stink too....*** i LOVED that car)

the first thing noticed was that it began to idle smoother( even though it had a HUGE duration cam in it!!....260@50)

next was the fact there were small amounts of water exiting the exhaust(this is a sign of the fuel burning correctly and converting into carbon dioxide and water)

then after about a month or so of using these fuels i removed the carb to see what the intake manifold runners looked like...prior to using these new fuels the manifold looked very dirty and fuel stained. on removal of the carb i was amazed to see the runners were THAT clean you could eat your dinner off it.

so...in the end these fuels will do good things for the insides of your engine.....pity the cost of it is almost prohibitive.

just remember that using just 1 or 2 tanks of the stuff WON'T get results you may want. you need to use it over several MONTHS before it starts to show the goods.

cheers

[Wixy]

so...in the end these fuels will do good things for the insides of your engine.....pity the cost of it is almost prohibitive.

just remember that using just 1 or 2 tanks of the stuff WON'T get results you may want. you need to use it over several MONTHS before it starts to show the goods.

cheers

spot on :) but the probable issue here is...just how much cleaners are in "normal" 98oct fuel compared to bp ultimate? hehe, we'll never know, aside from the marketing....

[supertownace]

being in the transport industry as i am i get to talk to fuel tanker drivers regularly. and when asked the question "were does the fuel come from" they all give the same answer......

all fuels come from the same bulk crude oil carrier.....they then process it and it goes out to the different fuel company bulk stores. there they add their "secret herbs and spices" then transport it t the different servo's around the place.

as i understand it the base fuel is ALL the same......just different companies add different additives to make theirs "better than the rest"

i do know that several fuel companies may even share the same fuel supplier, and the fuel may even be the same across the board....however we as consumers aren't supposed to know that.

at one time during my "high octane fuel investigation" i did notice that several fuels were the same colour and left the same fuel stain inside the intake runners......go figure that one!!! what i did notice was that the higher octane fuel likes more compression. to this end i think these fuels are slower burning and like a little more squeeze. (have you ever noticed how an engine rattles when you use the el cheapo fuel??) cheap fuel is EXACTLY that....and will sometimes contain water too.....great for rusting and corroding the insides of your fuel system.

as mentioned before....if you want to see if a particular fuel is for you then you need to use it over a reasonable length of time for any true results to show. i did this myself with my hardtop.....i found i got an extra 60km from a tank after using the same fuel over time....and no i didn't pussyfoot it around either. i drove the car no differently...lol my foot was always on the floor and gone!!

the end conclusion i came up with was this........

high octane fuel + more compression = BIGGER BANG for your dollar = better performance.

cheers

[MT]

High Octane fuel is denser than normal fuel, hence why it likes more compression.

[supertownace]

density has nothing to do with it. its the burn rate..hence the different octane rating.....the higher the number the slower the burn the more energy released.

the same rings true for gunpowder

ordinary gunpowder burns faster than black powder.

black powder has more energy to release than ordinary gun powder.

the SLOWER the burn rate the more energy a fuel has.

you can near on freeze the two fuels to make them both as dense as you can, yet they will still perform the same as if they were at room temperature.

compare normal unleaded fuel to say bp 100 fuel.

bp 100 has an octane rating of 100....ordinary unleaded is something around 89-91 octane.

avgas has an octane rating of 110LL-130LL the "LL" stands for "low lead" this is why a lot of speedway cars that are setup for normal fuel use avgas...the higher octane rating is an easy performance gain.

cheers

[One-pager]

Actually the octane rating doesn't relate to the energy content of the fuel, nor the speed at which the fuel burns. The octane rating is a measure of the fuel's resistance to autoignition (pinging, knocking call it what you will).

[Steve gee]

Hi all,

Just wanting to get your opinion about Ethanol Fuel.

Due to skyrocketing fuel prices - now at 1.44 cents per litre - i am thinking of ways to reduce fuel costs. I have heard some mixed reviews from different pple. I am interested to hear about your experience.

Does anyone have any opinions of the Ethanol fuel blend?

Has anyone used this on a regular basis?

Any difference in performance?

If so, how is the fuel consumption?

appreciate your views!

cheers,d

My Toyota 2000GT 18RG loves it but Im running 9.7:1 and carbies.

My Suzuki GTi loves it EPI ll alloy engine 10:1 loves it and runs clean.

Unsure of VZV21 2VZFE as I run on LPG and start on PULP for 10 minutes only per day.

My 3TGTE in my T18 in 1985 ran fantastic on AVGAS so I imagine those engines would thrive on Ethanol.

[Flo_Jo]

After a bit of trial and error, I have found that there is far more pinging from my engine (V6 3.0) than the normal 91 unleaded stuff that I use. The pinging is especially noticeable when accelerating suddenly, i.e. from 0-30 or other times when sudden acceleration is required.

I didn't really notice a difference in fuel economy either - so for 4 cents extra i decided to stay with the regular stuff.

[initial_d]

I haven't used ethanol blended petrol yet but I did notice differences in mileage I can get out of a fuel tank between different brands. For example, I always get lower mileage from Woolworths/Caltex branded fuel but when I fill up at United I always get over 600km from the full tank (city drive) before reserve lights up. In both cases its 91 octane regular.

[trentmeyer23]

So far from this tank of 98 oct from United, i have gotten 330kms from 1/3 of a tank, mixed between town and highway driving.

[Guest]

I know this is in the camry section, but i will throw in my 2c

Since i have a camry coupe (Celica) anyway.

I always run my celica (5SFE) on the E10, 95 octane fuel from freedom or united.

I have found that i get more power and better economy with the E10 (probably because of the higher octane rating)

I haven't seen any ill effects from using the ethanol blended fuel with my car, but that said I wont use E10 Blended fuel if is 91 octane.

[ASG14]

Here in the US, a good portion of the gas is E10 (10% ethanol). The cars are fine to fun on for the most part. But the gas is just not as good, and many people say over time, it does do damage to the car's engine. But lik eI said, most stations here are E10, and there is not really a way to get around it, ugh.