Air intake mods

[DJKOR]

The check engine light came on, but I don't think it was one of those logged error code ones. As you know you get that Check VSC error when the CEL comes on properly, this wasn't the case. It came on because the engine stalled, much like when you stall the engine by accidentally shifting into drive without coming to a complete stop when reversing (my bad for doing that once before). It didn't come up when started again.

I was feeling risky so I left the homebrew setup on and it managed to make it through the 30km drive to work. It appeared to drive just like normal and WOT acceleration from 90km/h seemed to be no different to before (except for the louder whine). It seems to drive at the same revs as before and gear shift points appear to remain unchanged.

I'm still panicking like hell though. It feels like I'm walking on a wire.

I've even taken the extra step of carrying the original airbox components and tools in my car for a quick restore if necessary.

[Guest]

D. Don't be a pussy, leave it on.

Did you reset your ECU before you did this modification?

Ive found that new Toyota ECU's are quite good at learning new things after a reset, i would say it probably got more air than it was used to, freaked out and threw a code. The yaris has done this to me before, pretty much identical to what you described.

AFAIK you can check codes without a scan tool if you short two pins on the ODB port (it will flash the CEL to let you determine the code)... but check the service manual for how to do this and the details of codes.

[DJKOR]

No I didn't reset the ECU afterwards just in case (don't ask why I thought this way).

Starting to think about it, I think I made the mistake when testing it out the first time. I remember reading the Northy ECU reset guide where he mentions that after a ECU reset, you let the car idle for 5-10 minutes then afterwards you turn the car off. Once that is done, you start it up again then give it a good flogging.

I'm guessing that when I changed the intake and started the car just once, I then gave it a drive and it was probably still 'adjusting' so to speak, even though the ECU wasn't reset (probably because it was getting different readings, hence the odd return to idle), or was running on a different 'profile'. I guess when it decided to stall, that was pretty much it. Then I started it again and I think it got the point.

As has probably been noticed by now, I am still running with it on. I may do the proper ECU reset later just to be sure. I'm just keeping a good eye on things for the moment. If all looks good by the end of today, I shall be changing that rubber hose at the top with some alloy then further keeping an eye on it in-case that changes the airflow in a bad way.

[-DAvo]

is this the same as a K&N kit Daryl? If not, how come you didnt just get that kit? as you have used it before with no problems? or is it a different kit altogether for the TRD?

[DJKOR]

is this the same as a K&N kit Daryl? If not, how come you didnt just get that kit? as you have used it before with no problems? or is it a different kit altogether for the TRD?

The throttle body on the TRD is pointing in the opposite direction to the throttle body on a N/A Aurion. If it were that simple, I would have gotten the K&N already.

[SecaBoy]

i just re read your post daryl and read your latest posts... as you said, it doesnt actually sound like the ecu threw a code...

it just stalled as you said...

if you've driven 30km with it on, and there was no problem, then i'd suggest that everything is fine...

as bad as this sounds, imo, you need to give it a good thrashing to be sure... just be ready to knock it into neutral just in case something happens again...

i know that this sounds completely unrelated, but have you checked that there were no leaks in the intake...

i know one way to solve this once and for all... lets put the intake on my car and see if the same thing happens...

ps. this thursday, you're taking me for a drive so i can hear it and see if it feels different to my car... :D hehe

[DJKOR]

Oh man, I really don't know what's going on in my mind.

So far I've driven to the Coast and back and all around Brisbane giving it a good hard run here and there. Everything now appears to be like it used to.... or is it.

In the midst of all my panicking etc, I have pretty much forgotten how it felt prior to fitting the pod. I don't want to put the stock box back on to save having to muck around, but I really don't have a point of reference anymore.

I'm not expecting any more power with this pod filter. That's not my point here. What it feels like to me now though is as if my car is not running any boost at all. I'm not saying it's not running boost, but to me, without a point of reference, it feels like that. It sure accelerates hard, but it's like I'm a bit numb.

The sound is still exciting though. It does seem to sound a little more quiet than it did last night though.

WTF is this... like reverse placebo effect or something.

Edit: Yeah Ash, no leaks or anything like that. I gave it a good double checking because that's the last thing I want. It sure makes a good supercharger sound now. I think I will need you to test drive it tomorrow because it just doesn't feel the same to me anymore.

[Guest]

i'll tell you if its boosting or not :P hehe

unless you messed with the bypass valve there is no reason why it would not boost

[DJKOR]

Okay, something was definitely not 100%... or I needed a good sugar pill.

I went ahead and reset my ECU giving it a 5 minute idle on reconnection of the battery, then a half-a**ed flogging after stopping and starting the engine. I don't really know if the reset actually helped out or whether my mind got a reset instead, but either way, it's got that familiar feeling again.

If it was ECU related, I'm guessing it was probably a combination of not doing the idle then restart when I changed the intake, and then the over-cautious driving that followed.

Now that it seems like an intake on the TRD is a bit more successful then first anticipated, I think I will start adding money to my car mod fund so some day down the track I can get a neater one fabricated.

[Myxalplyx]

DJKor,

Nice intake btw! Just wanted to relay a little on the air filter itself. While a couple of us at the RAV4 site was testing out various air filters, a couple of the members noticed a strange phenomenom about one of the K&N air filters. All of them did not experience this but at least one person did. The gentleman that I quoted above (TRDV6), he previously used a K&N air filter on his short ram intake (Just like you have). What he found out is that it caused the check engine light to come on. As he researched further, the check engine light was caused by how the air transitioned into the maf sensor piping housing at the base of the intake. It was not a 'smooth' transition and it threw a code. Wish I had the link to the quote but it escapes me at the moment. He simply switched to another model of air filter that had a smoother transitioning base (Where it connects to the maf sensor piping) and the CEL went away.

Another problem some of the guys had is the intake diameter of the maf sensor housing itself but it doesn't appear you have this problem and if you did, you'd probably nip that issue in the bud.

Good luck with the modification! If you want to keep the air filter on, consider extending the piping to push the air filter away from the maf sensor. With that powerful supercharger you have, it may reduce some of the racket of the air coming in by the maf sensor and the sound vibrations escaping from the intake manifold through the maf sensor. I'm sure it sounds lovely though.

BTW: If you are interested in widening the throttle body slightly, I just updated a thread I posted at the Toyonation site. Maxbore Throttle Body

Edited June 2, 2010 by Myxalplyx

[SecaBoy]

yeah daryl... we'll talk tonight about it... but i reckon its just all in your head...

a lot of the time, our minds plays tricks on us, even though we know that its tricking us...

ps: wanna make me one!? hahaha

[SCOOTA44]

Well back to the drawing board, got frustrated with the intake and put back the original airbox for now. to do what I really want I would move the battery tray on the airbox support and have a straight run to the guard rather than too many twists and turns for cleaner air flow, only worried about battery getting too hot towards the back of the engine bay.

[prometheus]

I read this in the Australian Ford Forum , thought it was interesting and worth sharing.

Air Intakes

CAI: Cold air intake, great for reducing intake temperatures, great for power.

HAI: Hot air intake (ok i made the term up), but here is how it works:

Hotter air going into your engine makes for more efficient motoring, by increasing flame propagation in the cylinders and taking heat away from your cylinder walls.

The ecu in an engine has whats known as an IAT sensor, abbreviated from Intake Air Temperature, the varying air temperature has an effect on how much fuel is pumped in.

The hotter the air, the less fuel is squirted in with each injector cycle

The colder the air, the more fuel is squirted in.. See where this is going?

So by having hotter air flowing into your engine, you will lose a little power but gain on your economy and your throttle response somewhat.

To do this effectively you can cut holes in the side of your air box before the filter, redirect your intake to suck air from around your exhaust extractors, or an area in your engine bay where there is a lot of hot air.

From My link

Thoughts ??

[Steven]

I read this in the Australian Ford Forum , thought it was interesting and worth sharing.

Air Intakes

CAI: Cold air intake, great for reducing intake temperatures, great for power.

HAI: Hot air intake (ok i made the term up), but here is how it works:

Hotter air going into your engine makes for more efficient motoring, by increasing flame propagation in the cylinders and taking heat away from your cylinder walls.

The ecu in an engine has whats known as an IAT sensor, abbreviated from Intake Air Temperature, the varying air temperature has an effect on how much fuel is pumped in.

The hotter the air, the less fuel is squirted in with each injector cycle

The colder the air, the more fuel is squirted in.. See where this is going?

So by having hotter air flowing into your engine, you will lose a little power but gain on your economy and your throttle response somewhat.

To do this effectively you can cut holes in the side of your air box before the filter, redirect your intake to suck air from around your exhaust extractors, or an area in your engine bay where there is a lot of hot air.

From My link

Thoughts ??

sounds very unreliable imo. Cooler air is generally more dense than warm air, more air + fuel = power. This also makes it more responsive, and generally an engine that is working easier (ie doesn't need to work so hard to suck X amount of air) is more efficient as a result.

Warmer air is less dense, so thus you'd think to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio the ecu would cut back on the fuel. This is true to an extent, but it also means the engine is not making as much power so needs to work harder to move the same vehicle mass - as a result efficiency is down. It would also drop the cars throttle response too. Yes you would probably save on fuel a little bit, but why would you buy a 200kw V6 if you deliberately wanted to choke the engine to get better economy? There is a reason we don't have air intakes running directly off our exhaust headers.

The extreme of each scenario could be seen as this. Colder air is to an engine a similar effect as forced induction, hotter air the same as an intake restriction.

Also I can't see how warmer air would do a better job of absorbing heat from the cylinder walls than cooler air. Heat exchange works faster if the difference in temperature between 2 objects is greater.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Steven

[1stKill]

I read this in the Australian Ford Forum , thought it was interesting and worth sharing.

Air Intakes

CAI: Cold air intake, great for reducing intake temperatures, great for power.

HAI: Hot air intake (ok i made the term up), but here is how it works:

Hotter air going into your engine makes for more efficient motoring, by increasing flame propagation in the cylinders and taking heat away from your cylinder walls.

The ecu in an engine has whats known as an IAT sensor, abbreviated from Intake Air Temperature, the varying air temperature has an effect on how much fuel is pumped in.

The hotter the air, the less fuel is squirted in with each injector cycle

The colder the air, the more fuel is squirted in.. See where this is going?

So by having hotter air flowing into your engine, you will lose a little power but gain on your economy and your throttle response somewhat.

To do this effectively you can cut holes in the side of your air box before the filter, redirect your intake to suck air from around your exhaust extractors, or an area in your engine bay where there is a lot of hot air.

From My link

Thoughts ??

Thoughts...NO WAY cold air is the go,seriously who dosn't love fanging around in the cold crisp air,i know my Aurion loves it and as long as her heater works i love it to.

but really it sounds a bit dodgy,if he is that worried about fuel econ buy a more fuel efficent car,Fords suck the juice at the best of times,i was always pouring fuel into my old BA.

[prometheus]

You are right about cars loving the cold weather.

My 96 4cyl Camry seems to have been driving better the last few weeks with the colder weather too.

[SCOOTA44]

sorry guys I dont get on the forum much these days, way too much time in the cab. Anyway I agree with the cold air theory, as I had noticed it seemed to have more power during the cool of the evening. I again took out the airbox and have short ram, and of course it sucks hot air, so Im going to try to rebuild the CAI in the guard, just a couple of questions, the vacuum hose from the intake chamber, where should that go? and the vacuum hose from the engine mount, should I just not bother with that? oh and a third Q, I have had trouble with the trans going into 6th at highway speeds, it will only change into 6th when i level out if i have been going up slight incline, what sensor controls this ? thanks for any help.

[SCOOTA44]

Here we go again, anyway another version, a bit of both worlds, so far so good.

[fuel miser]

Here we go again, anyway another version, a bit of both worlds, so far so good.

What filters the cold air? Are you supplying unfiltered air directly into the engine side of the filter?

If so then virtually no air will be sucked in from the engine bay.

I suggest if you are it is not a good idea. Dirt, dust, water etc will have a direct entry point to your beast and this will not be good.

NOTE: water injection into an engine has a major cooling effect/performance boost to an engine, this was used in spitfires during the second world war as a last resort to avoid the enemy. The down side after using it is the engine would need to be rebuilt. They also had access to very cold air whilst flying.

Try and avoid this scenario, its very costly.

If the filter was inside a sealed box and then had the cold air feeding it then guess what ....... it would be like the original setup with non-genuine parts used.

This is obviously what you are trying to avoid, I guess.

I have mentioned before about using a velocity stack arrangement and if you can get this setup right you can even get a slight ram air effect going.

See this link, they got it wrong with a velocity stack - they original setup was better.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/41302-velocity-stack-dyno-results.html

The ram air intake works by reducing the intake air velocity by increasing the cross sectional area of the intake ducting. When gas velocity goes down the dynamic pressure is reduced while the static pressure is increased. The increased static pressure in the plenum chamber has a positive effect on engine power, both because of the pressure itself and the increased air density this higher pressure gives.

Ram-air systems are used on high performance vehicles, most often on motorcycles and race cars. Ram-air has been a feature on some cars since the late sixties, but fell out of favor in the seventies, and has only recently made a comeback.

At low speeds (subsonic speeds) increases in static pressure are however limited to a few percent. Given that the air velocity is reduced to zero without losses the pressure increase can be calculated according. The lack of losses also means without heating the air. Thus a ram-air intake also is a cold air intake. In some cars the intake is placed behind the radiator, where not only the air is hot, but the pressure is below ambient pressure. The ram-air intake effect may be small, but so are other mild tuning techniques to increase cylinder filling like using larger, fresh air filters, high flow mass flow sensors, velocity stacks, tuned air box and large tubes from the filter to the engine.

Edited June 19, 2010 by fuel miser

[fuel miser]

I read this in the Australian Ford Forum , thought it was interesting and worth sharing.

Air Intakes

CAI: Cold air intake, great for reducing intake temperatures, great for power.

HAI: Hot air intake (ok i made the term up), but here is how it works:

Hotter air going into your engine makes for more efficient motoring, by increasing flame propagation in the cylinders and taking heat away from your cylinder walls.

The ecu in an engine has whats known as an IAT sensor, abbreviated from Intake Air Temperature, the varying air temperature has an effect on how much fuel is pumped in.

The hotter the air, the less fuel is squirted in with each injector cycle

The colder the air, the more fuel is squirted in.. See where this is going?

So by having hotter air flowing into your engine, you will lose a little power but gain on your economy and your throttle response somewhat.

To do this effectively you can cut holes in the side of your air box before the filter, redirect your intake to suck air from around your exhaust extractors, or an area in your engine bay where there is a lot of hot air.

From My link

Thoughts ??

A warm air intake or WAI is a system to decrease the amount of the air going into a car for the purpose of increasing the fuel economy of the internal-combustion engine. This term may also be used to describe a short ram air intake, a totally different intake modification.

All warm air intakes operate on the principle of decreasing the amount of oxygen available for combustion with fuel. Warm air from inside the engine bay is used opposed to air taken from the generally more restrictive stock intake. Warmer air is less dense, and thus contains less oxygen to burn fuel in. The car's ECU compensates by opening the throttle wider to admit more air. This, in turn, decreases the resistance the engine must overcome to suck air in. The net effect is for the engine to intake the same amount of oxygen (and thus burn the same amount of fuel, producing the same power) but with less friction losses, allowing for a gain in fuel economy, at the expense of top-end power.

[fuel miser]

The short ram air intake is a form of aftermarket air intake for automobiles with internal combustion engines.

It basically replaces the OEM air intake with a short metal pipe and a conical air filter inside the engine bay. A significant increase in intake air volume will only occur in an engine where the factory intake piping was restrictive.

There is still some open debate on this issue, but some believe that a problem with short ram air intakes is that the air entering the intake is at a higher temperature due to the proximity of the engine, which may reduce some power. This may be partially offset by an increase in the volume of air entering the engine. To counter intake heat problems, many short ram intakes include some form of heat shield. Moving the intake inlet port further away from the engine block will also help to alleviate the problem and some users use a cold air intake where the inlet air is at or close to ambient temperature. However, others claim that Short Ram Intakes (SRIs) or similar Warm Air Intakes (WAIs) offer benefits over Cold Air Intakes (CAIs) which include better MPG due to a more complete burning of fuel. Users with forced induction engines often opt for short ram intakes because compressors adjacent to the engine, especially turbochargers, heat the incoming air and negate much of the benefits of a cold air intake. Additional problems can result from using a short ram intake in cars utilizing a mass airflow sensor though most of today's sensors automatically adjust without issue. Turbulence in the intake airflow produced by the filter or piping, or a change in intake diameter at the point where the airflow is measured can produce inaccurate airflow readings. The error in airflow then translates to an error in the amount of added fuel. In the worst case, the air/fuel ratio can run lean, causing detonation and possibly engine failure although the airflow sensor will generally detect and correct the throttle to compensate for the warmer air. This can also be solved by modifying/elongating the intake piping, replacing the airflow meter, or by replacing/remapping the engine control computer to provide the correct amount of fuel for the intake airflow at all engine speeds.

A harmless but noticeable result of using a short ram air intake is an increase in intake noise, which may manifest as a sucking sound, and the loss of any silencing properties that the factory intake had.

[fuel miser]

Try these at least they are made by Toyota.

[fuel miser]

http://ebrochures.lexus.com/publication/031983ac#/031983ac/1

take a look here, maybe the intake solution can be found in this car

[SCOOTA44]

Here we go again, anyway another version, a bit of both worlds, so far so good.

What filters the cold air? Are you supplying unfiltered air directly into the engine side of the filter?

If so then virtually no air will be sucked in from the engine bay.

I suggest if you are it is not a good idea. Dirt, dust, water etc will have a direct entry point to your beast and this will not be good.

NOTE: water injection into an engine has a major cooling effect/performance boost to an engine, this was used in spitfires during the second world war as a last resort to avoid the enemy. The down side after using it is the engine would need to be rebuilt. They also had access to very cold air whilst flying.

Try and avoid this scenario, its very costly.

If the filter was inside a sealed box and then had the cold air feeding it then guess what ....... it would be like the original setup with non-genuine parts used.

This is obviously what you are trying to avoid, I guess.

I have mentioned before about using a velocity stack arrangement and if you can get this setup right you can even get a slight ram air effect going.

See this link, they got it wrong with a velocity stack - they original setup was better.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/41302-velocity-stack-dyno-results.html

The ram air intake works by reducing the intake air velocity by increasing the cross sectional area of the intake ducting. When gas velocity goes down the dynamic pressure is reduced while the static pressure is increased. The increased static pressure in the plenum chamber has a positive effect on engine power, both because of the pressure itself and the increased air density this higher pressure gives.

Ram-air systems are used on high performance vehicles, most often on motorcycles and race cars. Ram-air has been a feature on some cars since the late sixties, but fell out of favor in the seventies, and has only recently made a comeback.

At low speeds (subsonic speeds) increases in static pressure are however limited to a few percent. Given that the air velocity is reduced to zero without losses the pressure increase can be calculated according. The lack of losses also means without heating the air. Thus a ram-air intake also is a cold air intake. In some cars the intake is placed behind the radiator, where not only the air is hot, but the pressure is below ambient pressure. The ram-air intake effect may be small, but so are other mild tuning techniques to increase cylinder filling like using larger, fresh air filters, high flow mass flow sensors, velocity stacks, tuned air box and large tubes from the filter to the engine.

I have used the stock resonator on the throttle body, then the pipe with the maf,the pod on that pipe, then a cold air feed into the conical end of the pod. This feeds up from the bottom of the guard. although its not totally cold air, it is cooler than the short system and testing on some hilly ,windy roads yesterday using S mode sounded and accelerated beautifully, (the kids got a thrill).

[SCOOTA44]

Try these at least they are made by Toyota.

I have never seen these before thanks Fuel Miser, I bet being TRD parts they would be in short supply and would not fit the stock aurion. very interesting all the same.