Traction in the Wet

[Mintos]

This weekend i drove my car in the wet for the first time since all basic mods have been completed and attained my +60nm of torque :P

But anyhows when my 1zz was stock i found it often a challenge (well not really but it wasnt easy, it required effort) to break traction in the wet, flooring it in first hardly did the job!

Nonetheless, now it takes effort to STOP the car spinning up just with normal driving in the rain. Unless i feather the clutch at less than 1500 rpm, traction goes to hell in a handbag, it is actually quite nasty. On the cool side though, just going in a straight line and flooring it in second, it spins up (3k+) and even in third if the road is poor quality and i am at peak torque rpm range (4-5k).

And before you all say - TIRES! My tires are fine, even had front and back rotated recently.

SO...how is everyone elses traction in the wet in terms of - what does it take to break traction (in a straight line i am talking, any car can understeer and aquaplane into the gutter/another car)?

Not just 1zzs either, i want to know how the stivos go in the wet, stock or modded, do mods decrease straight line traction in the wet with the stivo and how is the grip when lift kicks in?

[darkeh]

tractions goes out the door when u land in lift :)

in the wet i just launch nice and slow, the car is fairly **** in the wet really, powerband just isn't useable :)

[melvinlau]

yeh my 1zz goes crazy in the wet, i think it might be the tyres, when i replaced mine i went with the dunlop sp sports again, i'm not sure how that performs in the wet, anyone know? but yeh only basic mods and all it takes is a hard turn to go in to a slide, or just a quick takeoff, but its all kinda fun :D

[Teknoman]

found out a few weeks ago that the car wheel spins hard when hitting lift in first

[sw20r]

Mid-Rear No traction problems here :D

[Phat]

found out a few weeks ago that the car wheel spins hard when hitting lift in first

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thats true. found out jus the other night wen the roads were wet

[JBop]

mintos, ive gotta stock 1zz and i also lose traction in the rain very easily. when i first got the car it had toyo tires (which i think were 175 wide) and i had to take corners so slowly because id just get wheelspin out of the corner.

anyway, i replaced my tires with kelly ritmo's 195 wide and the handling was much better, but wheelspin was still there. i can go around corners a faster, but it also depends on how u drive. i find u have to have a very steady foot and watch the revs carefully (or listen to the engine).

i still cant launch fast in the wet. i always find every other car taking off faster than me... :(

one thing i always wondered is whether lowering it would help???

[CHA54]

so what tread compound are your tires?

From the last 15 or so sets of tyres I've purchased, the difference between dry and wet performance is like night and day.

The old Dunlop FM901's used to be pretty good in the wet, but they wore quickly due to the soft compound used.

[50 lemons]

My rolla came with michelin energy 195/60/r15 88v tires. The suspension is stock at the moment. normal driving there are no traction problems be it wet or dry.

with "spirited" driving you can hear the inside tire scrabble for grip in dry conditions and in the wet you get full on wheel spin. a lsd would probably help in the dry and in the wet I probably would be spining both tires instead.

[CHA54]

My rolla came with michelin energy 195/60/r15 88v tires.  The suspension is stock at the moment.  normal driving  there are no traction problems be it wet or dry.

with "spirited" driving you can hear the inside tire scrabble  for grip in dry conditions and in the wet you get full on wheel spin.  a lsd would probably help in the dry and in the wet I probably would be spining both  tires instead.

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The energy XM1's are far from a "performance" tyre. You would be suprised at what difference there is in grip levels changing to something like a Pilot Preceda, but a change like that will highlight the massive difference in tyre cost between the "comfort" tyre and the "performance" tyre.

[DANZZT231]

When you guys said wheelspin, is that when u mesh the pedal too much or just normal take off? Seriously, most tyres will still gives you wheelspin on wet days, its only normal i guess.

My Falken Ziex 326, 215/40/ZR17 is a pretty hard compound tyres, but it hasn't causes me problems even on wet. Unless, as I mentioned before, take off with hard pedal to the metal.

[CAP]

It's simply characteristic of a FWD when taking off in the wet ( Especially worse when you're taking off up hill ).

When you accelerate the weight of the car transfers to the rear, less weight over the front tyres, less traction.

Only way to overcome it is that you accelerate more gently in the wet. Better tyres help but simply wont eliminate this.

[2ZZ-GE Sportivo]

yeh my 1zz goes crazy in the wet, i think it might be the tyres, when i replaced mine i went with the dunlop sp sports again, i'm not sure how that performs in the wet, anyone know? but yeh only basic mods and all it takes is a hard turn to go in to a slide, or just a quick takeoff, but its all kinda fun  :D

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I ran sp3000 dunlops... They were the best tyres i had ever run on the stivo.. Most tyres i ran were good in the dry, but the SP3000's really shine in the wet.. :)

[xGSiR]

Yeah some light rain in Sydney in the past few days. Rain is so rare nowadays, can't have fun drifting in the rain.

[JBop]

Yeah some light rain in Sydney in the past few days. Rain is so rare nowadays, can't have fun drifting in the rain.

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perths been raining a fair bit lately and the wind is killin me! down the freeway, and my cars gotta mind of its own.

[evo]

slight o/t -

suppose you theoretically took a tight-ish right handcorner at a comfortable 50kmh in the dry, what is the speed that can be attained without the tyres breaking traction/at the limit of understeer?

let's say its a stock suspension setup with default issue tyres

Edited September 5, 2005 by evo

[Romp]

My mate had traction issues in his A3 turbo that he moddd .. he put some 18inch rims on it and that helped with the traction. Basically because they are wider and more tyre on the road surface.

lol u can do drastic stuff as well like more weight over ur wheels, anti lift kits, suspension setups etc

[E-Gene]

slight o/t -

suppose you theoretically took a tight-ish right handcorner at a comfortable 50kmh in the dry, what is the speed that can be attained without the tyres breaking traction/at the limit of understeer?

let's say its a stock suspension setup with default issue tyres

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Woah, sounds like a question for the TV series "Numb3rs".

There are I guess too many variables in that equation though.

[Mintos]

When you guys said wheelspin, is that when u mesh the pedal too much or just normal take off? Seriously, most tyres will still gives you wheelspin on wet days, its only normal i guess.

My Falken Ziex 326, 215/40/ZR17 is a pretty hard compound tyres, but it hasn't causes me problems even on wet. Unless, as I mentioned before, take off with hard pedal to the metal.

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Well you guys have kind of gotten into talking about traction in the dry and traction in the wet around corners...

Like i said in the original post, with ANY car (especially FWD) if you accelerate into a corner or during cornering, there will be some traction loss, so i didnt feel that that area needed to be touched.

What i was trying to get an understanding of was how easy everyone spun up in a straight line, what gear, rpms, etc

So yeah i have stock dunlop sports, cannot recall dimensions, but they have been great tyres all round, grip really well in the dry and not too bad in the wet. What i am drawing attention to is - the impact of performance mods in terms of drivability in the wet.

If i go more than 10% throttle from driving in first - traction gone...if i plant in second just from coasting at say 30km - traction gone...and i have even spun up at about 85km/h in 3rd (just where my max torque range is) on a crappy road.

As much fun as it is losing traction rather than been able to drive hard in the dry, i want the rain to go away :( my car is kind of a turd in the wet now.

Do you stivo owners get any such traction loss in 2nd + ? (please include details of rpm and speed if possible). Also would some of you stivo guys be able to list your max kw and nm output and at what revs if possible.

This could be a great way to compare tyre performance in the wet :P

[melvinlau]

Yeah some light rain in Sydney in the past few days. Rain is so rare nowadays, can't have fun drifting in the rain.

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perths been raining a fair bit lately and the wind is killin me! down the freeway, and my cars gotta mind of its own.

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another fellow perthian enjoying the heavy perth winds atm, but i gotta say the rain is fun :P

[50 lemons]

My rolla came with michelin energy 195/60/r15 88v tires.  The suspension is stock at the moment.  normal driving  there are no traction problems be it wet or dry.

with "spirited" driving you can hear the inside tire scrabble  for grip in dry conditions and in the wet you get full on wheel spin.  a lsd would probably help in the dry and in the wet I probably would be spining both  tires instead.

←

The energy XM1's are far from a "performance" tyre. You would be suprised at what difference there is in grip levels changing to something like a Pilot Preceda, but a change like that will highlight the massive difference in tyre cost between the "comfort" tyre and the "performance" tyre.

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My observations of wheel spin occur for me when powering out of corners. I can avoid the wheel spin by being more gentle on the accelarator

The energy xm1 maybe a comfort tire but it has a performance tire price. A while back I managed to run over a beer bottle. I was quoted 240 bux for a replacement tire by Ian Diffens (The Tire factory).

[JBop]

another fellow perthian enjoying the heavy perth winds atm, but i gotta say the rain is fun :P

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dude, to be honest, im fed up with the rain. the first sign of drizzle and ppl on the freeway slow down to 80km. not to mention the whole "easily lost traction". if someone tries to drag me in the rain i dont even think about it cos i know i wont win, even if the car's a little barina

as the old song goes, rain rain go away! come again another day (when im sick of the dry weather) (which is HIGHLY unlikely) :P

mintos - if it rains tomorrow i promise ill try get some rpm readings for ya ;) but from memory my car handles just like u described urs does, so i know exactly what ur talkin about.

[negatron]

Hey mintos,

Once it starts to rain, traction goes to crap for my 1zze, even on mid-ish revs on low speeds.

anyhow. i noticed ur're a long poster!

[2ZZ-GE Sportivo]

The rain is a great challenge :D I try to feed the power on in a straight line, if you press hard on the accelerator it will obvioulsy break traction. Even in "lift" just feed it on.. Also shift before 7500 in the 2zz so you shift and revs drop to around 5k so you can keep the traction..

I raced a 7th gen celica when i had my stivo in the wet, that was fun.. 2 front drivers scrabbling for any sort of traction. He beat me though.. :(

[CAP]

I'm on Falken Ziex ZE502 205/45/17.

In the wet If I'm not gentle I break traction on take off and throughout 1st and 2nd gear when accelerating. I've also experienced a four wheel drift around a 3rd gear bend.