ATTN Kluger owners: Steering Intermediate Shaft Knocking Noise -

[Nidecker]

Just got mine replaced 3 year old Kluger 100000kms, it had already been replaced once, had got to the stage it felt dangerous?? No idea how Toyota get away with this, I just despair at the greater number of Kluger / Camry owners, who are so out of touch with their vehicles that they don't notice the clunk.

That said the dealer said he had 300 DPRs on his desk for this problem, and mine was one of the first they had actually fixed.

The "story" my dealer told me was that for each individual car they have to submit a DPR, and the part/repair gets "authorised" by Toyota? It is quite a separate process from the regular warranty process.

Once my DPR was submitted, I followed up with a complaint to Birte at customerexperience@toyota.com.au I phoned and then emailed, I would urge you all to do the same.

It's pretty sh!ty that Toyota don't just product recall this.

edit: Not sure if Im imagining it or not, but the new ISS feels way better than the original even when it didn't clunk

Edited February 23, 2014 by Nidecker

[pinot52]

First time posting here, but have been following the various comments on this issue for some time.

Mine is a late 2011 Kluger.

After taking delivery (on my drive home) I noticed noises. On day two after delivery, I went back to the dealer, and mentioned the intermittent noises and klunks in the front steering. Without taking it for a drive, the Service Manager said, “This Kluger has a new type of steering and you would not be used to it.” He also said “The noises are OPERATIONAL.” I can now say, an OPERATIONAL cover up and total BS!

For me it has been a very long, frustrating and costly journey. I am a self employed small business owner and the down time from my work has cost more than what the car is worth.

It has now only travelled about 12,000 k’s. By 9,200 k’s it was onto its 4^th Intermediate Steering Shaft (original plus 3 replacements). The last being ‘the so called fix’. In my case, the ‘fix’ did not work. Intermittent noises and klunks are still apparent. It was noted at the last service (10,160 k's) the issue was still there. Vehicle was taken for a test drive, but due to the intermittent nature of the issues, they were not noticed during this road test. I drove down the coast last weekend and all still there. Will mention it again at the next service.

Shaft History:

At 1,600 k's shaft replaced

Then at 7,500 k's another new shaft

Then at 9,200 k's The 'so called' Fix!

All along, Toyota continued to offer re-assurance, "The vehicle is safe to drive".

Toyota have known about this issue for many years and continued to build and sell cars with these known faults. IMHO, they are totally irresponsible. There are plenty of old comments on the net about the issues, especially on USA forums.

Apart from a recall, I think a refund would be in order to all those unsuspecting persons who purchased one of these faulty vehicles. Toyota should have advised the Dealer and the Dealer should have advised the Customer about the known fault. The Customer would have then been able to make an ‘informed decision’ whether or not to purchase a vehicle with a known fault.

Toyota Customer Service and Toyota at Taren Point have been useless and at times arrogant and rude.

Regardless of whether the vehicle is ‘in or out’ of warranty, any person that is being asked to make any type of payment or co-payment to replace this shaft is 'being shafted’, and should refer the matter to Australian Competition & Consumer Commission (ACCC). The fault did not just happen, it has been there all along. I think that there is enough evidence out there to prove the vehicles were built with a faulty shaft.

Unfortunately there are no LEMON laws in Australia (that I am aware of) to cover faulty motor vehicles. In part, the ACCC Repair. Replace. Refund. brochure reads:

"All goods must be of acceptable quality.

This means they are:

• safe
• lasting
• have no faults
• look acceptable, and
• do all the things someone would normally expect them to do."

The ACCC brochure/website also mentions a 'Major Problem'. That is, "An issue that would have stopped someone from buying the product or service if they'd known about it."

If the selling Dealer had said, "John, over the next two years your new $55,000 Kluger will be off the road for about 30 days while we stuff around trying to fix its dodgy steering shaft." Would I have purchased the Kluger? I think not!

More on ACCC website:

http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund#repair-replacement-or-refund

As a 20 plus year owner of Toyota vehicles, I would never purchase another.

Oh, what a feeling, NOT!

John

Edited February 24, 2014 by pinot52

[Cosmosblue]

and this was my reply, these guys are probably the next holden

Hi

It looks like you did not properly read my email. I have already done what your are asking me to do. Their response is they waiting for you (Toyota) for a fix. From what I can see it is passing it from one person to another. I am not at all interested in the varying levels of expertise at the dealership.

Unfortunately the next step is current affairs as I have not got the time to be doing this for a brand new vehicle. Your TNF is attached , 1 year and still no resolve

**** I was right next Holden it is :)

[waz2068]

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum and found it whilst searching for info regarding the clunking in our Kluger.

Finally after trying for 2 years and having our Kluger in 4 times to have the knock sorted there seems to be a solution.....maybe

I received a call this afternoon from my dealer telling me to come and pick up our Kluger; it had been in for yet another steering inspection. They agreed that the clunk was most certainly evident and it appeared to be, yet again, coming out of the intermediate shaft.

I had this replaced some time ago.

After my last service I received one of their emailed service surveys. This time I most certainly answered it and boy I didn't hold back. I informed them of the knocking issue and how I seemed to be fobbed off all the time. I also sent my local dealer an email explaining this forum and others and my displeasure that Toyota hadn't been up front with me in the first place.

Anyway the phone call today informed me that my car did need a new (read another) intermediate shaft. I replied that this had already been done. He responded that, yes that's true and that they were under the impression it was the new design. He explained that after many long conversations with Toyota Australia during the day it was found that the previous shaft was just a new one of the original design. He went on to explain about the ball bearing design of the original and that the new shaft was a different design. This new design sounds to be just a normal splined shaft found in vehicles for many years

So now they have to put in the DPR and I have to wait approximately 2 weeks for that to be approved. Once this is done they can order the shaft; this will be ex-Melbourne.

Whilst I'm happy with this new turn of events it does leave me wondering; if this is such an unusual problem why would they have newly designed parts to replace the original ball bearing design in stock in Melbourne??

Time will tell.

I do have to add that whilst I have felt that I was getting fobbed off (by my dealer) it would appear that Toyota Australia isn't being very straight forward with their dealers either. It makes it very hard to get any accurate information.

Waz

Edited February 24, 2014 by waz2068

[waz2068]

Just to follow up on my previous report.

I was shown a Tech Drawing yesterday of a cross section that showed the current (dodgy) ball splined system compared to the new standard design. Looks to me like a fine splined shaft as per every other splined shaft I've seen.

I asked as to why they'd have them in stock if it wasn't such a problem. Their response was that they take on a case by case basis and manufacture the shafts as needed. They don't necessarily have them in stock; they just knock em up as they need em!!!

Once mines done i'll re-post and let you know the difference between the two.

Waz

[LivingTheDream]

Rather than take my 2012 Kluger Altitude to Toyota to do nothing about the problem, I undid the shaft at the steering column, 12mm bolt, and worked my shaft (hahahaha) in and out to free it up. The problem is that the steering rack is mounted to the crossmember rather than the body of the car. As the crossmember is attached to the body via rubber bushes, as the vehicle twists and the crossmember flexes on its rubber mounts, the alignment of the intermediate shaft alters and the slip splines end up binding causing the knock. Working the shaft in & out (hahahaha) fixes the problem for a little while. I'll wait til it comes back and then do the same again, there's no point having someone stuff around with my car unnecessarily when he's not going to permanently fix the problem, especially when I'm more than capable of doing the same job.

[waz2068]

Yeah I had the same done to mine (in/out). Yes it did fix it... for about a week or so. I'm still keen to see if the new (revisited old conventional design) fixes it. I'll let you know. The standard shaft is obviously a design failure!

Waz

[LivingTheDream]

Thanks for the feed back was2068 about your intermediate shaft, as for mine after I stuffed around with it, the noise in mine went away and has not come back and its been approx. 16,000kms, not 1 week. Best you change dealerships if they can't fix a simple issue.

[waz2068]

You did notice I'm in Tassie???... We haven't got many (dealerships) down here, but I do see your point.

Mines gotten to the point that it rattles in a straight line on anything other than perfect road surfaces.

As for it being a simple issue, I suspect that if they were all that simple this thread wouldn't exist.

Glad to see you found a fix that works for yours.

Waz

[munster]

My Kluger went in for it's 180k service today, and I again reported the clunking problem. I've posted earlier in this thread, but it was originally reported at about 20k, they replaced the shaft with the same unit, same problem at about 40k. I reported again at pretty much every service, they acknowledged the problem and said Toyota was working on a fix.

The service manager now tells me that they have the new part, they can fit if for me today, and it will only cost me $680....

I informed him I reported it multiple times while under warranty, and that they tried to fix it but couldn't. I also pointed out that since Toyota had modified the new part, they were effectively admitting the original part was of faulty design.

After several minutes of discussion, he settled on the argument that they can't replace it since it's a 2008 vehicle. I countered that it was a warranty issue right from the start and that they knew there was a problem, and recorded it multiple times. We just kept going back and forth in this manner until I gave up.

I rang Toyota Aust (Billie took my call, very friendly and professional) but they are simply going to report my call to the local service manager....

I'm currently shopping for a replacement vehicle but don't want to have to sell the vehicle as it is (would you buy a car with that clunk in the steering?). I won't be getting another Toyota.

[DDC73]

The service manager now tells me that they have the new part, they can fit if for me today, and it will only cost me $680....

Im just curious , if an owner did fork out the $680 for the part , does Toyota guarantee 100% and i mean 100% that the problem is fixed and will never ever return?............probably not :(

[munster]

Toyota Australia customer service rang me back last night to tell me that they had been in contact with my dealer and confirmed that they can not (will not) do the repair under warrranty.

I said that's fine, but now explain why Toyota failed to honour the warranty I purchased with the vehicle, as they didn't repair my steering shaft fault when it was reported while under warranty. She noted that down, we'll see what happens.

From my warranty and service book:

"Within the Warranty Period Toyota will repair or replace, at its discretion, any original equipment Toyota components found to be defective under normal use and operation in Australia".

They categorically failed to do that. I understand they didn't know how to fix it at the time, but they kept telling me Toyota was working on a fix - I trusted them to follow through with the repair when it was available. Instead they let it go until my car was out of warranty, at which point it's no longer their problem.

My next step is an email to the owner of the dealership.

[pinot52]

Anyone being asked to pay in full or in part to have this issue fixed is being "RIPPED OFF". Send the Service Manager a link to this forum and then tell them you are going to ACCC.
All along Toyota have not been upfront and forthcoming about this issue. As mentioned in my previous post (page 4), my Kluger KLUNKED from day one.
I was fobbed off and told some great stories, all BS.
Toyota even sent out two 'so called' Technical Reps (internet qualified) to take it for a test drive.

My Shaft History (currently onto my fourth):

At 1,600 k's shaft replaced (after constant denials there was a problem from selling dealer and Toyota)

Then at 7,500 k's another new shaft (new dealer who was trying to appease me and get it sorted)

Then at 9,200 k's The 'so called' Fix!

The so called 'FIX' did not fix it. Toyota are aware of this and could not give a 'toss'. They have not contacted me!

From the Dallas News (USA)

Wednesday’s announcement that Toyota will pay $1.2 billion to avoid criminal prosecution for hiding information in a recall case could be a glimpse into your future.
From The Guardian (UK)

Toyota has been fined $32.4m (£20.9m) by the US government for failing to swiftly recall millions of vehicles with faulty brakes and steering.
The fines are the maximum allowed by law. In April Toyota paid another $16.4m fine related to the recalls, bringing the total to $48.8m. The latest fines relate to two separate investigations: one over the recall of nearly 5m vehicles with faulty accelerator pedals that became stuck and a second involving steering rods that cracked and broke in some models.
Worldwide Toyota has recalled more than 11m vehicles since November 2009, including popular models such as the Prius hybrid, and Camry and Corolla saloons.
The fines follow months of investigations that concluded Toyota had failed to report defects to safety regulators, who found that Toyota began a recall in Japan over faulty rods but waited a year before conceding US models were also affected.

From me:

It is very clear and obvious that Toyota worldwide is losing fans and loyal customers. Prior to owning this Kluger I was a committed Toyota fan of over 20 years and was always singing their praises. Now, I can admit to being one of their very worst advertisements, and will continue to be so, until they get off their fat u no wots and look after customers that have been "RIPPED OFF".

​PS: the resale of Klugers is not very good. They are also very difficult to resell. When recently trying to sell mine (it is rarely used and sits in the garage), I was asked many times about the steering - what can one say to a woman with two young children who takes it for a test drive - not much except "don't buy a Toyota".

Edited March 20, 2014 by pinot52

[cranks]

Hi Folks!

I have the dreaded clunk in the front end when turning left on my 2007 Kluger with 192K. Purchased from a used car dealer in Nov13. Wasn't present during 1 hour test drive but has become more evident as the weeks roll on.

Do you think I have a chance to have the intermediate shaft replaced thru Toyota or should I forget it and attempt the greasing method instead?

Thanks...

[pinot52]

Craig, with my Kluger the klunk is intermittent and might not be evident for long periods. At other times it would appear and be there during most turns and/or steering adjustments made on a freeway. Then it would disappear.
Should be worth following up with Toyota. If there are issues you might show them a copy of the 'Toyota.TNF.06.13.pdf' which you will find in the first post of this thread.

A Toyota Service Manager told me that the grease is not a long term solution, as the grease will work its way out of the shaft.

Toyota say it is not a safety issue, but with the recent press about Toyota's integrity and the huge fines imposed who can or would believe them!

[cranks]

Thanks John.... I'll contact the local dealership later in the week and report back!

[pinot52]

Hi Craig, I was told that there are two types of Toyota Dealers:

1. Franchisees

2. Toyota Company

You might find that you could get more action from a Company Dealership.

In Sydney, I believe the Company Dealership is Sydney City Toyota. Ring around and maybe start with Melbourne City Toyota. Don't let them 'fob' you off. Toyota has been selling the Kluger with this know steering fault for many years.

[cranks]

Hi John,

Thanks for the advise... I will contact Melb City Toyota first as you suggest!

[DDC73]

So...........................

On April 9th Toyota announced a recall for 6.39 Million cars world wide (link below) .Our Kluger steering issues was not addressed in the recall .I feel now that there is never gonna to be a fix , as they would of recalled the Kluger as well at the same time .I cant see them doing another big and public recall just for the Kluger any time in the future , as they will be doing everything they can to try and rebuild their public image .

Looks like the problem steering is here to stay :(

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-09/toyota-to-recall-639-million-vehicles-worldwide/5378768

[waz2068]

Well after having my vehicle in to have the new (conventional) splined intermediate shaft a couple of weeks ago I have noticed that it now appears.....well, fixed.

I've been tentative to post a reply in relation to it as I've had it gone before only to have it soon return. Anyway mine at least for now feels fixed. No knocking when turning left and feels more solid. Obviously if it returns ill let you all know but for now I feel pretty good about it. It did take four goes to get it sorted though.

Waz

[pinot52]

Further to earlier comments about this ‘dreaded’ shaft issue. Last week I ran into a a neighbour who lives a few blocks away (I don’t see him often). He purchased a Kluger around same time as I did.
His car developed klunks and he spoke to the dealer mid 2013. Dealer advised him that ‘the fix’ will not be available until January/February 2014. (This contradicts what I had been told and what many others in this forum were told.)
His car was recently recalled by dealer and new shaft fitted. He said after new shaft was fitted klunks disappeared.
My car was fitted with its 3rd replacement shaft last October. It still has the klunks. Maybe last years 'fix' was only a smokescreen to shut us up. When they have our cars in their workshop, we do not have a clue what they do.
Has anybody else been told that ‘the fix’ was due in January/February 2014?
My car is due for service again in a few weeks and I will follow it up again then.

Edited April 12, 2014 by pinot52

[owhatafeeling]

Hi All,

just had the " new modified intermediate steering shaft " part fitted today, feels a lot better.

it was done at Anthony Smith Toyota melbourne, guys where Good on chasing the part, took two weeks to get in.

Don't wait, go and see your Toyota Dealer and get them to do a "Dealer Product Report" on the steering shaft. Before your Warranty Runs out.

[munster]

After emailing my dealership and telling them that they had failed to honour my warranty back when they originally failed to fix it, I eventually was told that Toyota would provide the updated part at no charge "as a gesture of goodwill" and that my dealer would fit it free of charge.

A couple months later and they called me to tell me the part was available, I had it fitted on Wednesday, and the clunk has disappeared. It seems to drive better but that could be psychological.

I'm picking up a new Mazda BT50 next week so it's no longer my problem, but one of my employees wants to buy my Kluger. I hope the fix is permanent for his sake.

[matt_kluger]

I have noticed a slight knocking sound/feel in the steering lately (since the cold weather) especially is going down a ramp or sloped driveway. I ended up going to Toyota today and went for a drive with a technician. Although the technician didn't feel it, they kept the car to check it out further. Later in the day I got a call advising they would be ordering a new intermediate shaft from Japan. I have the part number too if people would like to know what it is... They advised it isn't a safety issue and the car is still drivable.

My car is almost out of warranty (2 more months), but it only has 24,000kms so I'm really happy the current part is getting replaced. I'm actually happy with the way this turned out, seemed to be no fuss at all.

The only other issue with this car has been the leather seat on drivers side. It seems to have excessive wear especially for the age and milage of the vehicle. And I'm not 'overweight' at all either... mm.

[pinot52]

Hi Matt, hopefully your Kluger is now fixed. I would be very interested to know the part number.

I believe there are two part numbers for the shafts: 1. The Old 'DODGY' part and 2. The 'FIX'

I have numbers here and it would be interesting to do a cross check.

As mentioned previously I am up to my 4th shaft. All before 10,000 kms.

John

Edited June 25, 2014 by pinot52