Avalon Re-Born ?

[Tony Prodigy]

2 hours ago, TommyM said:

Any idea what visc the 50's are calling for ?, or still recommended 5w30/0w30 ?. This is why you go off the extreme operating conditions and do it every 7500km haha !

5w-30 for the 50 at between 7 to 10k intervals for me. My car has just clicked over 127K and looking inside the oil cap there is not even a hint of discolouration and you can clearly see clean metal. The Nulon I've been using has been excellent. I may do an oil change in the coming weeks and make some notes then.

[campbeam]

2 hours ago, TommyM said:

I believe low tension rings have been around long before 2010. E.g Camry 2.4L was notorious for it !

 

Also another thing, Mobil 1 0w40 is only rated at API SN GF-5

Where as ENVIRO+ GF-S is SN Plus, GF6-A 😉 with GF-5 backwards compatibility.

Camry 2.4L was notorious for oil consumption. Beyond a certain level of oil consumption, Toyota was replacing the piston and rings. After looking at a few different YouTube videos, I am currently thinking that the oil ring has got blocked due to oils being used and the extended oil change interval. The Car Nut did a YouTube video which clearly explains the various stages of increased oil consumption in Toyota engines. Frequent oil changes is the preventative measure. Also use the recommended oil viscosity for your engine. 

I have revised my level of importance on the oil specification as a criteria for selecting oil. Forgotten which full synthetic oil [maybe Nulon] that was previously on special but only had a SL oil specification. Apparently this was due to level of zinc which exceeded the level to meet the SN oil specification. Also oil manufacturers have to pay to get the latest oil specification for each of their different oils. Not surprising if a product can meet the latest specification. Whereas another product has been tested and being marketed on that basis.  

[TommyM]

8 hours ago, campbeam said:

Camry 2.4L was notorious for oil consumption. Beyond a certain level of oil consumption, Toyota was replacing the piston and rings. After looking at a few different YouTube videos, I am currently thinking that the oil ring has got blocked due to oils being used and the extended oil change interval. The Car Nut did a YouTube video which clearly explains the various stages of increased oil consumption in Toyota engines. Frequent oil changes is the preventative measure. Also use the recommended oil viscosity for your engine. 

I have revised my level of importance on the oil specification as a criteria for selecting oil. Forgotten which full synthetic oil [maybe Nulon] that was previously on special but only had a SL oil specification. Apparently this was due to level of zinc which exceeded the level to meet the SN oil specification. Also oil manufacturers have to pay to get the latest oil specification for each of their different oils. Not surprising if a product can meet the latest specification. Whereas another product has been tested and being marketed on that basis.  

Yeah i saw that video. Quite interesting how much Toyota screwed up on that one, and only select ones had that, not every 2.4L was eligible 🤭😒

 

Some oils can, Penrite's ENVIRO range has proven to be one of the better oils out there as far as them specs are concerned, Mobil 1 5w30 meets the same spec, but has less zinc & additives to justify the price difference between them just isn't worth it. I'll just stick to Australian brands i think, so much simpler, comparable protection if not better. And getting info is easy, getting tech specs from Mobil 1 isn't exactly easy 😂

 

Why do you think i went back to 5w30 & haven't noticed any negatives, only positives if anything. "Use recommend oil viscosity", simple. 

 

The GF-S has plenty of zinc when you combine the total anti-wear packages, they take this out but replace it with a substitute that makes wear basically unchanged. The ENVIRO+ i do know has ALOT more cleaning agents over the 0w40 considering it's specific for "long drain intervals", even though i'm still doing it every 7500km regardless. I reset my trip odometer & watch the k's tick close to 7k then "book in a time" with my mechanic. I'm usually dead on intervals or before 😂

[TommyM]

10 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

5w-30 for the 50 at between 7 to 10k intervals for me. My car has just clicked over 127K and looking inside the oil cap there is not even a hint of discolouration and you can clearly see clean metal. The Nulon I've been using has been excellent. I may do an oil change in the coming weeks and make some notes then.

So they still call for 5w30, that's good. I'm suprised they hadn't switched over to 0w30 like some have. Looking inside my oil cap, it's spotless, not an ounce of buildup. Even my baffles are clean minus that normal sand paper like finish all mz's have on the oil filler main baffle, regardless of k's they just look dirty when in fact they're not. Think it's just the oil gets super hot in that area, i remember reading something. Baffles can be a great example of "looks can be deceiving". Almost 250k & not a hint of valvetrain noise. I run full synthetics wherever i can. On a side note, just replace your power steering fluid in the reservoir once a year, it's cheap insurance to keep it clean. Beats replacing a $800+ pump

[Tony Prodigy]

3 hours ago, TommyM said:

So they still call for 5w30, that's good. I'm suprised they hadn't switched over to 0w30 like some have.

Yep. They found the sweet spot for it. Another interesting bit of detail, if you already don't know, is that the current Gen Camry engine, The A25A-FKS & A25A-FXS uses 0w-16 !. This is a strict MUST USE viscosity otherwise you'll ruin it. 

This guy explains it well. Very interesting new technology too.

 

[campbeam]

6 hours ago, TommyM said:

On a side note, just replace your power steering fluid in the reservoir once a year, it's cheap insurance to keep it clean. Beats replacing a $800+ pump

I have been doing the same with my Aurion. It is so easy using a plastic hand pump to extract the fluid from the reservoir. A good use for those empty hand/body wash bottles. 

[TommyM]

6 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Yep. They found the sweet spot for it. Another interesting bit of detail, if you already don't know, is that the current Gen Camry engine, The A25A-FKS & A25A-FXS uses 0w-16 !. This is a strict MUST USE viscosity otherwise you'll ruin it. 

This guy explains it well. Very interesting new technology too.

 

I know, it's an impressive engine for a 4cyl. As i've said, i don't hate them, but the primary & secondary imbalance of 4cyls regardless of who makes it, isn't what i want to feel when i'm driving, hence why i personally won't own one. What next ?, 0w5 hahaha !

[TommyM]

3 hours ago, campbeam said:

I have been doing the same with my Aurion. It is so easy using a plastic hand pump to extract the fluid from the reservoir. A good use for those empty hand/body wash bottles. 

Good minds think alike i see 😝

I brought a hand pump suction device for a lawn mower service, was $15, works a treat. And now after flushing it 5 times last year, it's back to amber red (penrite full syn atf's colour)

Did the same to the Calais, only now the power steering pumps are so much quieter. It's amazing how a fluid (mineral to full synthetic) can make such a difference.

Edited February 7, 2021 by TommyM

[TommyM]

6 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Yep. They found the sweet spot for it. Another interesting bit of detail, if you already don't know, is that the current Gen Camry engine, The A25A-FKS & A25A-FXS uses 0w-16 !. This is a strict MUST USE viscosity otherwise you'll ruin it. 

This guy explains it well. Very interesting new technology too.

 

The only thing it's missing now is VTEC, twin turbos & AWD 😂😂😂

[Tony Prodigy]

4 minutes ago, TommyM said:

What next ?, 0w5 hahaha !

I know. It's kinda getting on the side of the ridiculous. Just like 8 speed, 10 speed transmissions. Sheesh !! What next ? 12 speed, 14 speed, 16 speed, 20 speed,30 speed, 40 speed, 50 speed 

[TommyM]

1 hour ago, Tony Prodigy said:

I know. It's kinda getting on the side of the ridiculous. Just like 8 speed, 10 speed transmissions. Sheesh !! What next ? 12 speed, 14 speed, 16 speed, 20 speed,30 speed, 40 speed, 50 speed 

Maximum gears you need is 8, that's it

ZF unfortunately have the best in the business in that regard. In terms of Toyota/Lexus, well the 6sp Aurions were brilliant. Perfect ratios, good final drive, etc.

Other than that, the A541E was bulletproof, especially the "adaptive" programming, it's nice to know it will actually kickdown when demanded haha, unlike some which are like "ugh do i have to ?" 😂😂

14+ speeds belong in one thing, semi's & busses, not f**king cars !

[TommyM]

1 hour ago, Tony Prodigy said:

I know. It's kinda getting on the side of the ridiculous. Just like 8 speed, 10 speed transmissions. Sheesh !! What next ? 12 speed, 14 speed, 16 speed, 20 speed,30 speed, 40 speed, 50 speed 

The lexus LS has a real high tech auto/cvt combo

It's got like 4 physical gears then the cvt takes over, they only act as launch gears for smoothness & acceleration, without being a buzzy cvt

[Tony Prodigy]

12 minutes ago, TommyM said:

ZF unfortunately have the best in the business in that regard.

I have read this. The Germans are conquering the world with their brilliant ZF trans. Why am I not surprised.

13 minutes ago, TommyM said:

In terms of Toyota/Lexus, well the 6sp Aurions were brilliant. Perfect ratios, good final drive, etc.

I totally agree. My Aurion drives amazingly well. Smooth changes and never an issue. Just don't abuse it as we've seen from recent posts..

18 minutes ago, TommyM said:

14+ speeds belong in one thing, semi's & busses, not f**king cars !

Haha yeah. Let's hope they keep 'em there.

[Tony Prodigy]

17 minutes ago, TommyM said:

The lexus LS has a real high tech auto/cvt combo

It's got like 4 physical gears then the cvt takes over, they only act as launch gears for smoothness & acceleration, without being a buzzy cvt

I had no idea. Interesting stuff. If anyone can make a CVT that is smooth as silk it has to be Lexus/Toyota engineers.

I must say, I drove a Corolla CVT before my Aurion Ownership and I hated it. Just never felt like a transmission should. The big rev and whine from take off had me laughing hard ! It's the dumbest thing I've ever driven. Why CVT ? Just put a normal transmission in there for God's sake. They have to mess with everything. Take something good and then make it worse.

[campbeam]

6 hours ago, TommyM said:

The lexus LS has a real high tech auto/cvt combo

It's got like 4 physical gears then the cvt takes over, they only act as launch gears for smoothness & acceleration, without being a buzzy cvt

I did not know this and it makes so much sense particularly for medium and larger vehicles. CVT for cruising along and fuel efficiency then physical gears for launching and acceleration. Combination should certainly prolong the life of the transmission which is a big concern for the CVT only transmissions.

One can only hope that these transmissions when avaiable in Toyotas can be retrofitted to earlier models.

[TommyM]

6 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

I have read this. The Germans are conquering the world with their brilliant ZF trans. Why am I not surprised.

It's only the 8HP, explains why FCA went to them, service them & they'll last you a very long time.

 

6 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

I totally agree. My Aurion drives amazingly well. Smooth changes and never an issue. Just don't abuse it as we've seen from recent posts..

Look they're built to work, don't be afraid to get up & move briskly if you need to 😉

[TommyM]

6 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

I had no idea. Interesting stuff. If anyone can make a CVT that is smooth as silk it has to be Lexus/Toyota engineers.

I must say, I drove a Corolla CVT before my Aurion Ownership and I hated it. Just never felt like a transmission should. The big rev and whine from take off had me laughing hard ! It's the dumbest thing I've ever driven. Why CVT ? Just put a normal transmission in there for God's sake. They have to mess with everything. Take something good and then make it worse.

It's exclusive only to the LS though. Corolla, etc are an "inferior" products when it comes to Lexus, only the best goes into a Lexus LS/Toyota Crown

 

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2017/12/14/lexus-tech-inside-the-multi-stage-hybrid-system/

[TommyM]

6 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

I must say, I drove a Corolla CVT before my Aurion Ownership and I hated it. Just never felt like a transmission should. The big rev and whine from take off had me laughing hard ! It's the dumbest thing I've ever driven. Why CVT ? Just put a normal transmission in there for God's sake. They have to mess with everything. Take something good and then make it worse.

CVT's belong in one spot, the friggin bin 😂

[TommyM]

11 minutes ago, campbeam said:

I did not know this and it makes so much sense particularly for medium and larger vehicles. CVT for cruising along and fuel efficiency then physical gears for launching and acceleration. Combination should certainly prolong the life of the transmission which is a big concern for the CVT only transmissions.

One can only hope that these transmissions when avaiable in Toyotas can be retrofitted to earlier models.

Change the fluid every 50,000km & you'll never have an issue. 

[Tony Prodigy]

6 hours ago, TommyM said:

CVT's belong in one spot, the friggin bin 😂

😂 Agreed

[campbeam]

10 hours ago, TommyM said:

Change the fluid every 50,000km & you'll never have an issue.

Just had a look at the Penrite Lube guide. Difference in recommended ATF and refill capacity between your Avalon and an Aurion. 3 years or 50,000 km sounds a good preventative measure.

Instead of doing a full flush of the ATF, I have been doing regular 6 monthly pan drains over the past 5 years. I bought my Aurion with 165K on the odometer and I am sure that it was the original ATF. Finally satisfied with the overall condition of the ATF and performance of the transmission. Now progressing to annual pan drains.

Apart from the regular changes of the ATF, I do not abuse/thrash the transmission so not expecting any major issues. Very rarely am I doing a fast launch from a stationary or rolling start. Others are faster from the traffic lights but I either pass them further down the road or catch up to them waiting at the next set of traffic lights. More into cruising and driving defensively with the benefit of no  expensive repair bills.

[TommyM]

5 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

😂 Agreed

Atleast Toyota/Aisin know how to build a CVT, unlike Jatco 😂😂😂

[TommyM]

30 minutes ago, campbeam said:

Just had a look at the Penrite Lube guide. Difference in recommended ATF and refill capacity between your Avalon and an Aurion. 3 years or 50,000 km sounds a good preventative measure.

Yeah they also mention Dex III or Semi-Synthetic. I'm not using either & going straight to Full Synthetic & replacing it every 45,000km (even though i do mine every 40,000km). It's got all the Toyota specs on it i care for. They don't need filter replacements through regular fluid changes, but mine had a filter every 80,000km as a preventative. 

80,000km, 160,000km & on my last service at give or take 237,000km, tad early but meh. 

https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/atf-fs-full-syn

I also believe the U660E has similar ATF specs, they hadn't moved Australia over to WS yet.

 

[TommyM]

41 minutes ago, campbeam said:

Instead of doing a full flush of the ATF, I have been doing regular 6 monthly pan drains over the past 5 years. I bought my Aurion with 165K on the odometer and I am sure that it was the original ATF. Finally satisfied with the overall condition of the ATF and performance of the transmission. Now progressing to annual pan drains.

Never flush an auto trans, big mistake. Just fill, run & dump, fill, run & dump. If you're unsure about previous maintenance history, thankfully i know every single record on mine lol.

Annual drain & refills is a bit overkill mate, change it every 40,000km if the fluids clean. Consider having the filter replaced too.

[TommyM]

44 minutes ago, campbeam said:

Apart from the regular changes of the ATF, I do not abuse/thrash the transmission so not expecting any major issues. Very rarely am I doing a fast launch from a stationary or rolling start. Others are faster from the traffic lights but I either pass them further down the road or catch up to them waiting at the next set of traffic lights. More into cruising and driving defensively with the benefit of no  expensive repair bills.

Neither do i, but blowing out the cobwebs when the cars actually warm once in a while won't hurt anything. If mine hasn't broken in 240k+, i'm sure yours will be fine 😝