Turbo 2ZZ from CES

[MR22ZZ]

Have you ever driven a FWD car with heaps of turbo lag? The torque steer is more dramatic and can become wildly uncontrollable if not treated with respect. Linear power delivery like Bill's setup is much more user friendly as you can counter the torque steer from the get go.

[RO11AS]

Torque steer is not bad, you gotta know how to control it and use it. But yes a sudden jump in power is not the best. It also depends where abouts in the power curve the jump occurs. The earlier the jump in the power curve the better. For such a light weight car, with the right suspension setup and brakes it should be able to match it on the track with the big boys.

[Suprathai]

Doesn't the suspension and brakes needed to be upgraded in order to pass engineering??

If he doesn't upgrade the brakes, at least the suspension should be done. I would hate to drive that thing with lowered king springs only.

But I'm pretty sure he will sort out the brakes and suspension out, since he already bulletproofed the engine. Why not go the whole way.

[MT]

tell him to call me when he needs a new gearbox

looks good otherwise

[RO11AS]

You dont think that his gearbox will hold up ?

[xoom]

You dont think that his gearbox will hold up ?

only time will tell .......

the boys in the USA although their dyno numbers are not really that believable they are pulling all over 13's, low 12's, all over 11's and high 10's down the 1/4 in their celicas and their boxes seem to be holding up fine. However all the cars in the 12's and below have an LSD in them ...... From all my research the problem seems to be the way it is driven as opposed to how much power its putting out ..... just take a look at this forum .... there are sooooo many people that have posted about gearbox problem ...... yet most are standard or mildly modded n/a so lucky to be seeing high 14's low 15's down the 1/4.

Mine is now going on 3 months and knock on wood nothing showing any issues thus far ...... 200+ kw at wheels out of a car that usually has half of that figure at the wheels if you dont sort as much of your setup out as possible then its only as strong as ur weakest link which a lot of people seem to believe its the box .......

[44gze]

Its obvious that most of the guys on these forums have never driven or owned a fast front wheel drive car, which is not a bad thing just alot of important info to consider.

This guy has spent a lot of coin but not in all the necessary areas to create a SAFE fast car...

I was having a discussion with Northy and TC the other night about my own turbo setup on my sportivo and these are some very wise ideas that have lacked attention..........

Rule number 1: Fast FWD lack traction so upgrades must include 1.5way LSD + uprated clutch. Getting all that power to the ground is difficult at best and coming out of corners will light the inside wheel like a joke.

Rule Number 2: Increased power usually means faster speeds and longer stopping distances so either bigger brakes or better pads, braided lines, synthetic fluid must be fitted (DOT requirement atleast) I am personally looking down the road of at least 4 piston fronts.

Rule Number 3: Increased power +++ Decreased airflow by sticking massive intercooler in front of the radiator spells massive overheating issues. Any prolonged high boost runs equals heat build up the standard system wasnt designed to deal with.

Anyways guys here is somethings to consider if you are looking at big power hikes and keeping a SAFE reliable car. The costs involved in setting it up right can be staggering!!!!!!

[xoom]

Rule number 1: Fast FWD lack traction so upgrades must include 1.5way LSD + uprated clutch. Getting all that power to the ground is difficult at best and coming out of corners will light the inside wheel like a joke.

Yep sorted ;)

Rule Number 2: Increased power usually means faster speeds and longer stopping distances so either bigger brakes or better pads, braided lines, synthetic fluid must be fitted (DOT requirement atleast) I am personally looking down the road of at least 4 piston fronts.

Yep sorted ;) but wanting more

Rule Number 3: Increased power +++ Decreased airflow by sticking massive intercooler in front of the radiator spells massive overheating issues. Any prolonged high boost runs equals heat build up the standard system wasnt designed to deal with.

Yep sorted ;)

Anyways guys here is somethings to consider if you are looking at big power hikes and keeping a SAFE reliable car. The costs involved in setting it up right can be staggering!!!!!!

Trust me ..... i know by first hand experience and an empty wallet

[Northy]

this guy is not interested in a safe & fast car, he is young stupid and all he wants is a dyno sheet with big numbers....

[CAP]

Its obvious that most of the guys on these forums have never driven or owned a fast front wheel drive car, which is not a bad thing just alot of important info to consider.

This guy has spent a lot of coin but not in all the necessary areas to create a SAFE fast car...

I was having a discussion with Northy and TC the other night about my own turbo setup on my sportivo and these are some very wise ideas that have lacked attention..........

Rule number 1: Fast FWD lack traction so upgrades must include 1.5way LSD + uprated clutch. Getting all that power to the ground is difficult at best and coming out of corners will light the inside wheel like a joke.

Rule Number 2: Increased power usually means faster speeds and longer stopping distances so either bigger brakes or better pads, braided lines, synthetic fluid must be fitted (DOT requirement atleast) I am personally looking down the road of at least 4 piston fronts.

Rule Number 3: Increased power +++ Decreased airflow by sticking massive intercooler in front of the radiator spells massive overheating issues. Any prolonged high boost runs equals heat build up the standard system wasnt designed to deal with.

Anyways guys here is somethings to consider if you are looking at big power hikes and keeping a SAFE reliable car. The costs involved in setting it up right can be staggering!!!!!!

Bingo!

Everything has to be in balance to be safe.

[Mintos]

that looks like a GT35 to me...(could be wrong but judging by the 0.7 compressor housing)

this tells me a few things:

*this person doesnt care about chronic lag - expect full boost to hit at 6k at least

*this person doesnt know squat about turbo efficiency, these things only get going at 20+ psi

*this person likes to flog off over dyno sheets

they will also have fun finding a comfortable lasting clutch for this setup...

Certainly not an ideal setup but certainly kudos for having the balls/stupidity to have a chop, hopefully it turns out...its certainly a neat setup done by CES.

[shaohaok]

this guy is not interested in a safe & fast car, he is young stupid and all he wants is a dyno sheet with big numbers....

weren't we all once like that at some stage? :D

Edited May 14, 2007 by shaohaok

[whiterolla]

I have a 1zz turbo and just ran 157kw and the computer still needs to be tuned

the 2zz should be awsome

OMG.....TURBO WHITE ROLLA!!makes me jealous....geez ur car sure do looks awesome...like the kit

wish could see ur engine bay. how much in total does it cost you to convert it to turbo?maybe i will consider to do it....^_^

[SexOnWheels]

holy bahhgeebus thats fkn awesome oO

[Danthuyer]

this guy is not interested in a safe & fast car, he is young stupid and all he wants is a dyno sheet with big numbers....

2nd that motion :)

[Skitzo]

Wow nice effort there!!! Does look like a clean install too.

I still can't help but feel that supercharger > turbo when it comes to these engines. Either way it would be interesting to see some numbers of dyno or 1/4 mile from that thing! (And if anything decides to disagree with the install)

[Dead]

I'd really invest in upgrading the brakes. Really. Actually no I'd 'make' him upgrade the braking package. I'm kinda worried now.

Corey I'm twin-charging my sportivo and putting drum brakes on it NAAARRR HAR HARRR! o.O

[specialized32]

such a waste of money in my view without all the proper build up involved (internals, brakes, sussy etc) if the guy wants numbers buy a s14 or 15 little mods huge results may not be original but il take that over a 2zz motor any day considering how much a sr20 costs

[SILVABULLIT]

Dunno about the canister Jason didn't have enough time to have a really good look!!

As for lag etc etc the turbo on the car was supplied by the owner and that was what he wanted to use. Bill's set up would perhaps be better to drive but the boys at CES have done what they can with what they have been supplied.Engine has been rebuilt with forged internals(pistons,rods valves,springs etc etc) so me thinks engine isn't the weak point but more so the gearbox and suspension(stock shocks with low kings).

It should push some pretty decent numbers so i will update sometime this week with more info.....

such a waste of money in my view without all the proper build up involved (internals, brakes, sussy etc) if the guy wants numbers buy a s14 or 15 little mods huge results may not be original but il take that over a 2zz motor any day considering how much a sr20 costs

Obviously you didn't read this thread too well. The entire engine has been pulled apart and been strengthened in the necessary areas. Put someone in this car who can drive and it would most prolly run close to similiar numbers of a s14/15 with decent mods. CES were estimating between 210-250kw atw from this car. Yes it needs brakes and it needs suspension upgrades but it's not our car nor does it belong to CES so it's entriely up to the owner to do something about it. CES have already on numerous occasions mentioned the need for upgrades in these areas but in the end the owner makes the decision.

Foolish to leave it as it is cause it will only end in a world of pain me thinks....

[shaohaok]

sometimes not everyone can afford to do everything at one go either.

but in this case, i'm guessing someone just bought stuff in the wrong order :P

Edited May 22, 2007 by shaohaok

[selyaT]

agree with shao

[xoom]

bring on the unstable stopping and wobbly front end nose planting when u slam on the brakes hard :D :D :D :D :D

when i had my stock springs and shocks in the front of my car the thing felt so unstable it wasnt funny ......

[Northy]

sometimes not everyone can afford to do everything at one go either.

but in this case, i'm guessing someone just bought stuff in the wrong order :P

i wish it was a case of lack of funds as apposed to lack of common sence... :(

[Pippy]

Sounds like the case of waiting for the current bill to be paid off or just simply waiting for the next cash flow to come in. Whether it be pay cheque or allowance. :P

Come on... we all know that feeling... the urge to do things to our car... and we all tend to choose the power to go fast over the power to stop fast.

Catch up on the shopping... another bill of similar size to the power upgrades for everything else... then you have a nice balanced car. Then it comes down to the driver... :P

[Dead]

"Now you listen to me boy...when you go to do a project car BRAKES and deciding on RUBBER / wheels comes first alright? Stopping faster and control is paramount. You don't do this and you'll have a death trap." - My father when I was 13 while working on the Escort in the garage.