LPG on Aurion

[AcoustiK]

George...

Find me a customer who has fitted a Gas system on their Aurion. I agree with Dave, Im sceptical on installers claiming its all good,

[dannywss]

I have done all my homework for the Aurion. Dont bother with what Toyota might say because they would rather have you buy their Prius if you want to save money. As a matter of fact, when you speak to any one of them, they all seem to have a different opinion about LPG.

Be sure you pick the right installer. I went and checked out a few places and I decided to go with this particular one because of the following reasons:

There is only 1 word in my mind to explain what George A said.. "SCARY"

I dont wan to argue about all what you said about getting Gas conversion, as i have NOT actually get it done on mine..

BUT there is 2 things i gotta sayy..

1. Dont bother what Toyota says? WTF? They are the one who will approve or deny any mod that effect your warranty. Gas conversion is 100% end of warranty. Ok, what if ACCIDENTALLY, 1 out of 10000 chances your car has engine issue, DEAD. WHO will be responsible??!! You?

Suggestion: dont suggest something to people that you might regret and sorry for.. as through interest we can say any shxt we want..

(I am not saying all toyota says is good, coz i hate some of them too)

2. bout the final part, how are you soooo sure HE is the right installer? Your car(aurion) has been done and tested for 50,000km or more? Unless you own that shop?

Suggestion: none

Sorry if i offended by any way, just some thing that came in my mind. Thzz

[AF35]

Hello Andrew. You may have heard a lot and read many things about LPG and whether it will be any good for your Aurion. I am the right person to speak to because I have done over 3 months of research via the internet and speaking to different installers. These are the very hard facts:

1. You will not lose any power at all.

2. There is no increase on engine wear (in fact, LPG will increase engine life).

3. With the current prices, the savings on fuel is 50% over petrol.

4. Your engine will not backfire (that happened with old technology)

5. You will be extremely happy with this fuel (I had my HSV Commodore on LPG 10 years ago and it was great). With this new system it will even be better.

Dont hesitate if you really want it. Dont listen to too many people and take very little notice of what is posted on the internet (I gues that means me). I have a saying, 'Dont believe what you hear and only believe half what you see.'

I have done all my homework for the Aurion. Dont bother with what Toyota might say because they would rather have you buy their Prius if you want to save money. As a matter of fact, when you speak to any one of them, they all seem to have a different opinion about LPG.

Be sure you pick the right installer. I went and checked out a few places and I decided to go with this particular one because of the following reasons:

1. Professional looking workshop

2. Manager was very knowledgeable and answered all the weird questions

Good luck. I will give you my mobile if you wish to discuss this via phone.

George

Where did you research this information? Some of those points defy the logic of physics...

1. LPG will cause a power and efficiency loss due to the lower density of the gas. LPG has a higher octane rating, which compensates for the lighter density and brings performance to a comparable point to petrol. The loss of efficiency still exists however and means that in a car that would typically make 10L/100km of petrol, will be closer to 15L/100k running on gas. This is going to be the case with comparing ANY gaseous fuel to a liquid fuel and is a scientific fact that cannot be debated.

2. Engine wear - this is a point to be argued. UNLESS additives are used in the gas to provide additional lubrication of which gas by itself lacks, valve seat wear WILL INCREASE. There is negligible impact to cylinder walls and rings. However, this may be compensated IF the engine is designed to run with gas (the Aurion is NOT designed to run with gas), which in that case will have compatible alloys and internal designs to be able to handle the significant reduction in lubrication. If you wander around wreckers and take a look at almost any car that has a gas system, you will find that the head is not in very good condition and will require either valve seat replacement and/or entire valve replacement. LPG does not have any lubrication at all by itself.

3. This is true for the most part, but is quickly compensated by the fact that additional tuning and maintenance is required in order to ensure the gas system is safe. This includes regular checks of emergency cutoff valves and testing of all fittings to ensure there are no leaks. In older systems that used an air intake mixer - this would also include replacement of diaphragm parts at regular intervals to ensure correct mixture. This is not the case with injection systems, although they must still be tuned on occasion to compensate for any variances introduced by various qualities of gas. Also note - the government has plans in the very near future to introduce additional excise tax to gas (approximately 60c/l has been suggested!), which will very, very quickly make any additional gains very minimal.

4. Yes this is true - only the old-style mixer systems had this issue due to incorrect mixtures from lack of tuning. Injected systems do not have this issue as an ECU is used.

Do not believe everything gas fitters say, as they are all out there trying to make an easy sale!

I believe anyone who wants to do LPG conversion needs to find information LATER THAN 2006. Since the late SVI and the coming up liquid injection systems are another class than the old mixers. so that's why people have two extremes in opinion depends on what system you are talking about.

the new liquid injection is claiming a better performance and higher fuel economy than ULP. however i'll only come out 6~9months later. The SVI system is also claiming to have reduced the power/fuel economy to the minimum compared to ULP.

so I would recommend LPG to someone who really wants to save $$ on fuel. However, a good installer is EXTREMELY important to save future hassle.

[Cookie]

Any more info on the Liquid Injection Systems?

I am looking at having my Kluger converted but if something better is coming soon it could be worth the wait.

Thanks

[AF35]

Any more info on the Liquid Injection Systems?

I am looking at having my Kluger converted but if something better is coming soon it could be worth the wait.

Thanks

sure. http://www.lpgli.com/ is their official website. supplier is in melb.

and the quote is from my e-mail conversation with the developer from lpgli.com

"It will be 4-6 months before the kits are finally ready. Injectors are still giving us problems which we are overcoming.

When the kits are ready they will be distributed through all the licensed convertors."

Cheers :)

[Speedz]

Thanks AF35...

Jezz that name is all so familiar...

[dave262]

Any more info on the Liquid Injection Systems?

I am looking at having my Kluger converted but if something better is coming soon it could be worth the wait.

Thanks

sure. http://www.lpgli.com/ is their official website. supplier is in melb.

and the quote is from my e-mail conversation with the developer from lpgli.com

"It will be 4-6 months before the kits are finally ready. Injectors are still giving us problems which we are overcoming.

When the kits are ready they will be distributed through all the licensed convertors."

Cheers :)

Liquid injection systems do have significant advantages over the standard mixer systems, and it will definitely be interesting to see how the performance and economy turns out using the system mentioned above.

As many of you will be aware, the concept of injection involves vaporising a liquid through a microscopic nozzle at high pressure, and is the same regardless whether it is gas or petrol injection. LPG in compressed form is actually a liquid so may therefore operate comparatively to petrol when injected. However, both fuels have different properties after leaving the injector nozzle, which I suspect is where the delays are with the aforementioned group.

Comparing the systems, the old mixer-style systems are very similar to that of a carburettor in that a jet sprays fuel which is mixed with air going through the intake. It relies on low pressure gas flow effectively "floating" through the intake and is very inaccurate and unreliable, and poorly tuned; unstable. This system I would personally not recommend in any car that supports fuel injection as it is initially cheap, but is of high maintenance and poor reliability. Fuel injected cars where possible (and economical) an injected gas system is a much better choice.

With these points in mind, there are far fewer disadvantages present with an injected system as opposed to the mixer-style systems. You MUST be aware however, that it is still a LPG system, and therefore still presents the same risk to the valves and heads. An interesting point to note however, is that the life of the engine may potentially be longer than mixer systems due to the more precise fuel control, although only time and testing will answer this one. Engines running off any form of LPG will still unlikely last as long as an engine running off petrol.

If you are really keen on converting to gas, definitely look into the injected gas systems and let us know how it goes!

[George A]

Hello Andrew. You may have heard a lot and read many things about LPG and whether it will be any good for your Aurion. I am the right person to speak to because I have done over 3 months of research via the internet and speaking to different installers. These are the very hard facts:

1. You will not lose any power at all.

2. There is no increase on engine wear (in fact, LPG will increase engine life).

3. With the current prices, the savings on fuel is 50% over petrol.

4. Your engine will not backfire (that happened with old technology)

5. You will be extremely happy with this fuel (I had my HSV Commodore on LPG 10 years ago and it was great). With this new system it will even be better.

Dont hesitate if you really want it. Dont listen to too many people and take very little notice of what is posted on the internet (I gues that means me). I have a saying, 'Dont believe what you hear and only believe half what you see.'

I have done all my homework for the Aurion. Dont bother with what Toyota might say because they would rather have you buy their Prius if you want to save money. As a matter of fact, when you speak to any one of them, they all seem to have a different opinion about LPG.

Be sure you pick the right installer. I went and checked out a few places and I decided to go with this particular one because of the following reasons:

1. Professional looking workshop

2. Manager was very knowledgeable and answered all the weird questions

Good luck. I will give you my mobile if you wish to discuss this via phone.

George

Where did you research this information? Some of those points defy the logic of physics...

1. LPG will cause a power and efficiency loss due to the lower density of the gas. LPG has a higher octane rating, which compensates for the lighter density and brings performance to a comparable point to petrol. The loss of efficiency still exists however and means that in a car that would typically make 10L/100km of petrol, will be closer to 15L/100k running on gas. This is going to be the case with comparing ANY gaseous fuel to a liquid fuel and is a scientific fact that cannot be debated.

2. Engine wear - this is a point to be argued. UNLESS additives are used in the gas to provide additional lubrication of which gas by itself lacks, valve seat wear WILL INCREASE. There is negligible impact to cylinder walls and rings. However, this may be compensated IF the engine is designed to run with gas (the Aurion is NOT designed to run with gas), which in that case will have compatible alloys and internal designs to be able to handle the significant reduction in lubrication. If you wander around wreckers and take a look at almost any car that has a gas system, you will find that the head is not in very good condition and will require either valve seat replacement and/or entire valve replacement. LPG does not have any lubrication at all by itself.

3. This is true for the most part, but is quickly compensated by the fact that additional tuning and maintenance is required in order to ensure the gas system is safe. This includes regular checks of emergency cutoff valves and testing of all fittings to ensure there are no leaks. In older systems that used an air intake mixer - this would also include replacement of diaphragm parts at regular intervals to ensure correct mixture. This is not the case with injection systems, although they must still be tuned on occasion to compensate for any variances introduced by various qualities of gas. Also note - the government has plans in the very near future to introduce additional excise tax to gas (approximately 60c/l has been suggested!), which will very, very quickly make any additional gains very minimal.

4. Yes this is true - only the old-style mixer systems had this issue due to incorrect mixtures from lack of tuning. Injected systems do not have this issue as an ECU is used.

Do not believe everything gas fitters say, as they are all out there trying to make an easy sale!

[George A]

George...

Find me a customer who has fitted a Gas system on their Aurion. I agree with Dave, Im sceptical on installers claiming its all good,

Hello,

I had my Aurion fitted up with GAS. The car runs perfect with no loss of power and the running costs are 50% to that of petrol. I would not have had my car converted to LPG if it wasnt for this new injection system where you dont lose power. I spent 3 months researching LPG for the Aurion and I found the right installer (that is very important). Some people on the forum have said Toyota dont recommend LPG for the Aurion motor. News announcements last week indicated taxis going to the aurion with lpg so that cant be right. Also, Toyota had helped develop the LPG system for the Aurion but Toyota would rather have you buying the Prius; they dont make any money if you convert your car.

The gas tank is not so big so its not too bad on space. This is what my fuel costed me, so far, in heavy city driving:

1. 290km $33 @ 64.9c/l

2. 240km $23 @ 64.9/l (with 4c discount per litre)

Not bad, eh! I dont mind visiting the servos anymore.

I am not really worried about the debate 'to convert or not to convert'. I am happy with the conversion.

Edited July 13, 2008 by George A

[JBeagle]

What is the capacity of the gas tank? Do you have to refill every 300kms?

Do you have a switch to run between either ULP or LPG, or is it LPG only?

[AcoustiK]

George...

Find me a customer who has fitted a Gas system on their Aurion. I agree with Dave, Im sceptical on installers claiming its all good,

Hello,

I had my Aurion fitted up with GAS. The car runs perfect with no loss of power and the running costs are 50% to that of petrol. I would not have had my car converted to LPG if it wasnt for this new injection system where you dont lose power. I spent 3 months researching LPG for the Aurion and I found the right installer (that is very important). Some people on the forum have said Toyota dont recommend LPG for the Aurion motor. News announcements last week indicated taxis going to the aurion with lpg so that cant be right. Also, Toyota had helped develop the LPG system for the Aurion but Toyota would rather have you buying the Prius; they dont make any money if you convert your car.

The gas tank is not so big so its not too bad on space. This is what my fuel costed me, so far, in heavy city driving:

1. 290km $33 @ 64.9c/l

2. 240km $23 @ 64.9/l (with 4c discount per litre)

Not bad, eh! I dont mind visiting the servos anymore.

I am not really worried about the debate 'to convert or not to convert'. I am happy with the conversion.

Ahh, how much all up, and where did you go for the conversion?

[Freddo]

how big is the tank? in the boot?

[tekkyy]

The only tank I've seen is about 25% of the large sedan boot.

My friends's dad went with LPG. It was a van though.

So no boot space issue there lol.

We see two extremes. Just who can we trust. Can you trust the guys trying to sell us LPG converters?

Post-2006 technology? Are there enough numbers for concrete feedback?

The savings are enticing, if it doesn't wear your car or kill your trade-in.

But if I was to go LPG I'll go with an engine designed for it.

(Ok I've been hit by the 2009 Hyundai Hybrid-LPG hype.)

With the diesel-petrol price gap reversed, hybrid seems the most promising to me.

We know where traffic conditions are heading, at least for Sydney.

Hybrid Camry. 2.4L large car with power of 3.0L. Economy of a Corolla. Silent city cruiser. Increased range. Sounds almost too good.

With "estimated" 60,000 sales you can probably get some real research on it.

Edited July 14, 2008 by tekkyy

[KLT3912]

Toyota Aurion is no good for LPG.

My Sportivo Aurion 2008 model is on LPG. After about 3,000 km on the road it now has many problems. Toyota wont help & sent me to the LPG converter. He rechecked every thing & found nothing abnormal in the conversion.

The car problems are: VSC (anti-skid system) not working (see Aurion manual page 9: 128/129: System Failure Warning). Traction Control System fails (see: the page 10 & 127). See page 9 - Malfunctioning Indicator Lamp fails.

Toyota claims the 3 faults are due to the LPG conversion. It says it cant do nothing except check the VSC.

It found the following faults: * PO174 (System too lean), * PO102 (Air Flow meter Circuit low (LPG conversion didnt touch any of this). * PO113 (Intake Temp. Circuit high input). * C1201 (Engine Control System Malfunction).

About PO174: LPG converter rechecks & resets every thing but nothing improves. PO102: The conversion didnt do anything to it & didnt touch it at all. PO113: LPG mech didnt touch it at all. C1201: LPG mech cant find any thing.

So the VSC warning light remains on. Traction Control System warning light remains on. Malfunctioning Indicator Lamp warning light remains on.

My Sportivo Aurion is about 10 weeks old. After the LPG conversion it has only done about 3,000 km.

Because of the LPG conversion Toyota warranty does not cover the problem. It claims they are due to the conversion. The mech/converter has done every possible to rectify the trouble but the problems wont go away. He said all work on the conversion was perfectly done & rechecked.

CAN ANY ONE HELP ME?

PLEASE HELP/ADVICE.

Thank you.

[dannywss]

KLT3912 which state are u in? doesnt te person who did the job provide warranty for 6 months or more?

[tekkyy]

you could try to find a LPG converter with good knowledge of Aurion

I wonder if if Toyota technicians can help

maybe you need a Toyota engineer

is it possible to undo the conversion?

third party LPG conversion voids warranty

you should only do it if your covered, (ie. converter offers warranty on seamless operation with the rest of the car)

[fatsatman]

its very unfortunate that some of you guys have had bad luck with your convertions becuase since ive had mine done ive clocked up 24,000 kms to date, average lpg consumption is about 13.5lt per 100kms and thats driving it pretty hard,,actually it doesnt really like been driven like a granny,have had no such problems like fault lights coming on or things stop working,, had mine done by a guy in queanbeyan(just outside canberra) cost me $4400 for the convertion and its costing me about $38-$39 bucks a tank and getting about 420k's out off it around town.using about 10 litres petrol every 15 or so lpg fills*** landi renzo I LOVE YOU *** ;-)

oh yer and the power drop,, well,, ??? what power drop? not worth talking about!

[lateralus]

my girlfriends brother has a vt commodore ss which was in perfect condition mechanically, and he decided to put it on lpg due to getting only 300kms per $70 tank of petrol. this was six months ago.

now, the ignition system is shagged, he needs valve stems replaced, constantly replacing spark plugs, and number 8 cylinder now not working at all. now he will need a new camshaft. all this because he switched over to lpg

so i dont think its worth it if you want to keep your car for years to come

[dave262]

It's a very mixed bag when it comes to LPG conversions. Some engines take it well, others do not. Obviously there is a huge impact depending on the type of equipment used in the conversion and the fitter.

I am personally very happy with just running with fuel, as I run off ethanol only (which is already cheaper than standard generic fuel anyway), and I get on average about 590km/tank with a combination of suburban and city driving. In the country for continuous driving I get about 700-750km/tank. To me this is perfectly reasonable, even with prices as they are these days for fuel.

I would not have gas installed for the above mentioned reasons, and because with petrol I still have a full warranty, with an engine tuned to run correctly as designed with normal fuel, and no risk of additional wear and tear on the engine. Sure it may cost a little to fill up when required, but if you choose your days carefully and only stick with the reputable problems, it's not a terrible thing.

[tekkyy]

unlike factory fitted LPG, we don't have a standard with third party conversions

like Burgundy wine, it really is a mine field

and to me, whats on the other side of the field is just not worth it

LPG fans should write to Toyota, maybe they'll introduce factory-fitted LPG Camry/Aurion

after all, they have the experience (Toyota LPG Taxi at Hong Kong)

[Newcastle]

Had my 2007 Aurion ZR6 converted last week. All going well, no noticeable loss of power infact the 'lag' seems to be gone when taking off from a standing start, it is vapour injection. I can keep updating if you would like.

[prometheus]

That would be good.

[corhijas]

to a previous post regarding taxi's

most taxi's are dedicated gas,they come from the factory(ford and holden) with stronger and more suitable valve stems,seats etc,another reason they get so many miles without too many probs is maintenance and they are usually left running most of the time.

most aftermarket gas systems start on petrol and shortly after switch to gas automatically,obviously dedicated gas does'nt

just my 2 cents worth

also the aurion imo is exceptionally good fuel wise so i would'nt bother with gas

cheers

[Blind Kid Seeks]

Toyota has factory gas available on its commercial vechicles...

if they believed it was going to be a stable system on their other vechicles... you'd assume it would be available for them too

[Newcastle]

Update on Conversion.

The trip computer does not recalculate 'Distance to Empty' or 'Ltrs/100' based on what is in the tank?

My current distance to empty is 0km with a quarter of a tank of petrol, having used primarily gas.

I will have to fill with petrol and gas so I can start to log the km's. Too excited last week when I got the car back to think of logging details, just wanted to drive... :)