Mechanical fault with Echo

[Pipes]

My daughter has a 2000 model Toyota Echo automatic 5 door hatch. When cold, the vehicle will not move when in gear. As it gets warmer, it begins moving, and once it is in motion, I can only travel at around 10kph until it is at running temperature, then the vehicle runs okay.

I have had it to mechanics for a tune-up and Auto transmission specialists for a service, and no one seems to know what the problem is. Can anyone help.

[Rolla Boy]

Any new model car is a dog when it's cold, when you first start it up, you'll notice it's revving at around 2000rpm... When it settles down to about 1000rm, take off then and see how it goes... They're not the best performing automatic either, so they don't rev out that hard or that fast...

If you really wanna be sure, take it to Toyota and get them to check the diagnostic trouble codes, might come up with something...

[Pipes]

Yeah Thanks Rolla Boy, but, unfortunately, as it's a Year 2000 model, it ain't real new, and it's done 106,000km. It just bogs down, and don't wanna play till she's warmed up and travelled about 5km under full acceleration travelling at an impressive 5kph.

Does anyone know if it could be the VVTI module? I've had all transmission sensors cleaned, new filters, plugs, oil etc....Still no grace. Might have to put it on the diagnostics thing eh?

[Rolla Boy]

Yeah, check the diagnostic trouble codes... It'll come up with something if one of the sensors or modules is playing up...

[qkslvr]

Yeah Thanks Rolla Boy, but, unfortunately, as it's a Year 2000 model, it ain't real new, and it's done 106,000km. It just bogs down, and don't wanna play till she's warmed up and travelled about 5km under full acceleration travelling at an impressive 5kph.

Does anyone know if it could be the VVTI module? I've had all transmission sensors cleaned, new filters, plugs, oil etc....Still no grace. Might have to put it on the diagnostics thing eh?

hey mate. Have you tried checking the silicon intake hose for cracks? If it's cracked after the sensor, you could have unmetered air which could be a confusing the hell out of your engine for the first few minutes after start up. thus, bogging down when you put your foot on the gas on cold starts.

Edited October 28, 2007 by qkslvr

[Pipes]

hey mate. Have you tried checking the silicon intake hose for cracks? If it's cracked after the sensor, you could have unmetered air which could be a confusing the hell out of your engine for the first few minutes after start up. thus, bogging down when you put your foot on the gas on cold starts.

Tks Qkslvr I'll give that a go...

Cheers

Pipes

[Echo]

We have the same problem with a 5 door Toyota Hatch. Has been at mechanics for 6 weeks now and have also had Toyota test it as well. Toyota advised that the problem was the computer, our mechanic has had the computer tested and that has come back fine. Is your car fixed now and if so how????

[pinzvidz]

Some of the replies here are steering you in the wrong direction - what's the point of looking for trouble codes if the MIL (engine fault) indicator hasn't been lighting up?!?

It's an issue with your automatic transmission - torque converter isn't doing its job properly as it's not receiving enough pump pressure. If you've just had the transmission serviced, take it back and rip it up them, or go somewhere else to someone who knows how to diagnose auto transmissions correctly.

[bozurolla]

Some of the replies here are steering you in the wrong direction - what's the point of looking for trouble codes if the MIL (engine fault) indicator hasn't been lighting up?!?

It's an issue with your automatic transmission - torque converter isn't doing its job properly as it's not receiving enough pump pressure. If you've just had the transmission serviced, take it back and rip it up them, or go somewhere else to someone who knows how to diagnose auto transmissions correctly.

Agreed it seems eveybodys taken the round trip instead of the direct,Take it back to the tranny guys who did it or go to a more reputable trans specialists..

[CORONA RT104]

When you are expirencing the problem does the engine labouring or does it rev freely?

Some of the replies here are steering you in the wrong direction - what's the point of looking for trouble codes if the MIL (engine fault) indicator hasn't been lighting up?!?

It's an issue with your automatic transmission - torque converter isn't doing its job properly as it's not receiving enough pump pressure. If you've just had the transmission serviced, take it back and rip it up them, or go somewhere else to someone who knows how to diagnose auto transmissions correctly.

Agreed it seems eveybodys taken the round trip instead of the direct,Take it back to the tranny guys who did it or go to a more reputable trans specialists..

[Echo]

Thanks for your reply guys but the car is a 5 speed manual. Car doing exactly what Pipes car is doing. Can get into middle of intersection and have no power, as warms up does pick up but is a beast to get going. Bendigo Toyota wanted $1400 to put new computer in with no guarantee, our own mechanic is one of the best in Bendigo and has gone to great lengths to rectify problem. Since had computer tested in Melbourne and they have advised all okay. Toyota replaced the VVT which made no difference!

Idles fair when cold but no go when foot on excellerator until car warms up, then drive okay, not brilliant, but okay. Does anyone know if Pipes has his car problem solved, and if so how????

Greatly appreciate any feedback.

[pinzvidz]

Car is doing exactly what Pipes is doing.

Okie, then... there's a simple term when it comes to knowledgeable mechanics - back to basics. Forget about computers and so forth - fuel pressure might be a bit of a problem here maybe? Air flow meter/MAF might be an issue too...? Find someone, preferably a Toyota Master Tech who'll be able to diagnose the issue correctly. Btw, most master techs give Toyota dealerships the flick and go out on their own. Have a good look in the Yellow Pages and look for specialist Toyota techs. Call them and have a chat about it - I'm sure you'll cotton onto one who sounds like they know what they're talking about.

Toyota replaced the VVT which made no difference!

That doesn't make sense. VVT = variable valve timing... what, they replaced the whole valvetrain assembly?!? What do you mean exactly by this comment? What did they actually replace?

Edited April 5, 2008 by pinzvidz

[Suprathai]

I don't know if anyone has asked this yet, but when in neutral does the car rev-freely or does it kinda choke a bit like its trying to clear its airways?? I found with my corolla that I need to rev it a bit when its cold so that it 'clears its airways' before it can begin to start moving in a more normal manner. If in neutral and it takes a while to say rev cleanly/freely then it would not be a transmission problem.

I assume that previously this problem did not occurr?? I say try an ECU reset, which involves disconnecting the battery and pumping the brake pedal a few times and then reconnecting it. Clean your MAF sensor as well I suppose.

[tEeevo]

sounds like one of those problems where they caused headaches for everyone who sees it,

i don't exactly know what the problem is, but questions:

1. when driving does car seem to rev fine while car doesn't seem to move? or engine is reluctant to rev?

2. put into all gears P/R/N/D and rev, same characteristics in all the gears hot / cold

3. how much of a difference between hold n cold eg. cold wont move, hot drive normal or hot just crawls?

if the engine seems to be revving fine while hot/ cold then most likely it will be your transmission, as you said, they just 'serviced' it. servicing really only involves draining out the oil, taking off the sump, changing the filter inside, refitting sump, then putting new oil in it, basically, an oil change. though you can tell if there is something wrong with your trans, from the oil that came out, oil with gold glitter in it indicated wear in your trans. i don't think there is a problem with your torque converter as it does not really rely on temperatures, and it also is the pump for the transmission (and it spins with your engine revs, higher revs pumps more). valves/ bands/ clutches in auto trans may be faulty. im just taking a guess here but need more info as it can be a number of problems. better taking to a mechanic who knows, what can cause the problem, then test each eliminating causes until he's found whats buggered instead of guessing to change this and that until its fixed

P.S. auto and manual are probably 2 totally different problems, badly slipping clutch?

[Pipes]

Hi all..... Pipes here....Tks for all your thoughts. The 2000 Echo's problem, believe it or not, was no one was able to identify the fault, and it has since just gone away........???? Now the engine warning light is on....! and we've now got another fault with the car. Sometimes it just doesn't start. Full battery life, all dash lights, indicators, radio etc., working fine. Mainly when the car is on a hill. We thought it was a stability sensor within the car's alarm system, however, we've re-routed the wiring to bypass the immobiliser and will see how that goes. Once we did this we disconnected the battery and lost all the code iformation, possibly re-setting the computer, as the engine light has gone, and we won't know what was wrong until it returns. Resetting it may have done the trick, including cleaning around the O2 sensors, and MAF sensor. We might sell it before anything else goes.....If we find out in the meantime, I'll post results again. Cheers

[Madrox]

I don't know if anyone has asked this yet, but when in neutral does the car rev-freely or does it kinda choke a bit like its trying to clear its airways?? I found with my corolla that I need to rev it a bit when its cold so that it 'clears its airways' before it can begin to start moving in a more normal manner. If in neutral and it takes a while to say rev cleanly/freely then it would not be a transmission problem.

I assume that previously this problem did not occurr?? I say try an ECU reset, which involves disconnecting the battery and pumping the brake pedal a few times and then reconnecting it. Clean your MAF sensor as well I suppose.

i have the same problem in the sportivo aswell.

its really bad when you pull out onto the street and have no power with a car tearing down the road towards your drivers side door.

yeah it revs up clearly in neutral but not once the clutch is let out. i always just put the foot down and it feels like it is clearing out the airways.

[the_random_hero]

I don't know if anyone has asked this yet, but when in neutral does the car rev-freely or does it kinda choke a bit like its trying to clear its airways?? I found with my corolla that I need to rev it a bit when its cold so that it 'clears its airways' before it can begin to start moving in a more normal manner. If in neutral and it takes a while to say rev cleanly/freely then it would not be a transmission problem.

I assume that previously this problem did not occurr?? I say try an ECU reset, which involves disconnecting the battery and pumping the brake pedal a few times and then reconnecting it. Clean your MAF sensor as well I suppose.

i have the same problem in the sportivo aswell.

its really bad when you pull out onto the street and have no power with a car tearing down the road towards your drivers side door.

yeah it revs up clearly in neutral but not once the clutch is let out. i always just put the foot down and it feels like it is clearing out the airways.

What? No cars should have to "clean out the airways" before they drive properly. It sounds like your car is struggling under load, which could be a whole host of problems.

[jaybee]

If I were you, i'd be looking at the air flow meter. Very common fault on these. And the tricky thing is, it won't always turn the MIL on. Although from what you've described, the auto could be a cause also but not likely as i've never had any problems with them ( I'm a pro-tech at a Toyota dealership by the way ). It would be a good idea to check the auto oil level because as you may know, the oil will expand as it heats up which may be why it seems to be better when its warmer.

[Madrox]

I don't know if anyone has asked this yet, but when in neutral does the car rev-freely or does it kinda choke a bit like its trying to clear its airways?? I found with my corolla that I need to rev it a bit when its cold so that it 'clears its airways' before it can begin to start moving in a more normal manner. If in neutral and it takes a while to say rev cleanly/freely then it would not be a transmission problem.

I assume that previously this problem did not occurr?? I say try an ECU reset, which involves disconnecting the battery and pumping the brake pedal a few times and then reconnecting it. Clean your MAF sensor as well I suppose.

i have the same problem in the sportivo aswell.

its really bad when you pull out onto the street and have no power with a car tearing down the road towards your drivers side door.

yeah it revs up clearly in neutral but not once the clutch is let out. i always just put the foot down and it feels like it is clearing out the airways.

What? No cars should have to "clean out the airways" before they drive properly. It sounds like your car is struggling under load, which could be a whole host of problems.

it seems like it does struggle a bit. but i must add this is when i dont warm her up at all.

turn the key and off i go.

i try to warm it up for at least 30 secs but it is not always possible.

it is only within the first minute of turning it on then it goes away.

i really have to put my foot down to get her to move, and if i dont it drops to about 500rpm and nearly stalls

[Toyotech]

I don't know if anyone has asked this yet, but when in neutral does the car rev-freely or does it kinda choke a bit like its trying to clear its airways?? I found with my corolla that I need to rev it a bit when its cold so that it 'clears its airways' before it can begin to start moving in a more normal manner. If in neutral and it takes a while to say rev cleanly/freely then it would not be a transmission problem.

I assume that previously this problem did not occurr?? I say try an ECU reset, which involves disconnecting the battery and pumping the brake pedal a few times and then reconnecting it. Clean your MAF sensor as well I suppose.

i have the same problem in the sportivo aswell.

its really bad when you pull out onto the street and have no power with a car tearing down the road towards your drivers side door.

yeah it revs up clearly in neutral but not once the clutch is let out. i always just put the foot down and it feels like it is clearing out the airways.

What? No cars should have to "clean out the airways" before they drive properly. It sounds like your car is struggling under load, which could be a whole host of problems.

it seems like it does struggle a bit. but i must add this is when i dont warm her up at all.

turn the key and off i go.

i try to warm it up for at least 30 secs but it is not always possible.

it is only within the first minute of turning it on then it goes away.

i really have to put my foot down to get her to move, and if i dont it drops to about 500rpm and nearly stalls

So what code is now stored? if the maf is severely dirty it will either throw a lean code or your fuel trim will be out of wack. possible measurements of the maf at idle and 2000 rpm would cancel that.

Also first hand i have seen the rear o2 sensor cause drivability issues when cold.. there won't be a fault code and majority of the time when checked the wavelength is correct.

[Madrox]

sorry for being a noob.

but i dont understand any of that at all.

sounds like very good information but i still have no idea how to fix the problem.

i can't check what code is stored can i, exept if i take it to toyota?

how do i clean the MAF sensor?

thanks for all your help

[ralyrt]

reading up on ur problem, sounds like u got a blocked cat, so id check that

[Madrox]

i think the honey comb in the cat has gone fallen apart.

it sounds like there are pebbles in my exhaust somewhere.

will take it down soon and get it checked.

[the_random_hero]

i think the honey comb in the cat has gone fallen apart.

it sounds like there are pebbles in my exhaust somewhere.

will take it down soon and get it checked.

Oh bingo, this would undoubtedly be the problem then. Do you find you engine heats up quickly or gets really hot?

[Madrox]

i think the honey comb in the cat has gone fallen apart.

it sounds like there are pebbles in my exhaust somewhere.

will take it down soon and get it checked.

Oh bingo, this would undoubtedly be the problem then. Do you find you engine heats up quickly or gets really hot?

i used to have a 20v that would take about 20 mins to heat up then overheat when driving.

the stivo heats up in about 4 mins and doesn't get to hot when driving either.

it sits just about 45% up the guage.