Porting Stock headers or Custom ones?

[taragasaurus]

does anyone know of a good shop in sydney area?

id rather just get it all done at the one shop. installation etc than have to wait for headers to get shipped here etc.

Westside Mufflers in Padstow;

I had mine done a couple of months ago, drive in and drive out. Very happy with the result. and by the sounds of it CME-LFT did the same and is happy as well.

I also went to liverpool exhaust before getting anything done and spoke to a guy there who has a sportivo. said that his custom headers were better than porting stockies. they were long 4 into 2 with 2 flexes then into 1. he also said that the stock 2zz engine has smaller than 2 1/4 exhaust, so his ideal set up was a 2 1/4 as he said its bigger than stock and that 2.5" is too big and loud. I still decided to get the stockies ported the same as everyone else.

Edited January 8, 2009 by lips

[jaderd]

i see it this way....

My system, from doing some shopping around.

Ported Headers and had them installed $260

2.5" Mandrel Bent Stainless Steel Cat Back $250

Xforce Varex Muffler $400 (goes loud for me, and quiet for when i want to be civilised)

how much is the CES catback again?

So what resonator do you have??? Or don't you have one at all......

X force Varex...... for those who cannot get a muffler to do the right job and make power without making ridiculous "noisepower".......

i see as for those who have thought into future and would at times like absolute zero noise at all (travel, clients, kids, parents etc)......not for those who cannot find the "correct" muffler........can be a costly thing trying out different mufflers....this way i have zero, mid or full noise with touch of button......

The other question with resonator orig Blind Kid Seeks had an aftermarket resonator (too smaller chamber) was way too loud and raspy extreme loud......went back to stock resonator with 2.5" exhaust and is perfect....prob 10-15 % louder than my stock exhasut with varex as a comparison

Edited January 8, 2009 by jaderd

[daviboy]

more and more im thinking about porting my headers. Would it make a noticable difference to stock everything else? no intake and no exhaust?

[taragasaurus]

more and more im thinking about porting my headers. Would it make a noticable difference to stock everything else? no intake and no exhaust?

Im on stock exhaust with a different rear muffler only. I would do the intake before porting the stock header. i feel the intake is the biggest of the 3 restrictors on the car.

[whitestivo]

ah, ces is closed for xmas holidays

i'll have to wait.

i answered my own question with the research button, the coating does SFA for performance, it does look good and reduce heat, i'm not worried about that.

whitestivo

[jaderd]

yeah i would do intake first if i was you....basically because it is best bang for buck and sounds great etc.......then id do rear muffler / exhaust ...whatever path you chose....so many opinions on here, id say do your research and as long as your happy thats all that matters.....then id go headers.....headers first yeah will do their same bit but for cost and increase (2-4kw) might as well go intake (ppl see 7-10kw in stivos) and rear muffler / exhaust (maybe 6-10kw again depending)

this is what me and my mates currently are at to do with IHE

Jaderd : TRD CAI, K&N Pod, Head2head Ported Headers, Xforce Varex Muffler

Kenji : CES CAI Drift Pod, Head2head Ported Headers, 2.5" Mandrel Bent SS Catback (stock resonator) + Xforce Varex

Kolourhero : CES CAI Drift Pod, Head 2 Head Ported Headers, 2.5" CES Mandrel Bent Catback

Guni : CES CAI Drift Pod, Head 2 Head Ported Headers, Stock Exhaust System

BKS : TRD CAI ITG Foam Pod, Head 2 Head Ported Headers, 2.5" SS Mandrel Bent Catback stock resonator) + Xforce Varex (118.2kw atw)

and before ANYONE starts another Dyno/Kw Debate.... all that needs to be said is... I cant wait till we can line all these cares up on a dyno on the same day!

Some stats all same day same dyno

Kolourhero got 117 KW wheel before porting the headers with his setup

BKS dead stock got 99.8kw

i got 108.9kw with only TRD CAI and a old quad tip rear muffler setup which was purely looks and sounds fair sure no good for performance

once we all get on dyno will be a good range of mods and base figures known to pull some comparisons......

yeah coating big price and not worth it for our NA cars that dont produce bugger all temp comp to turbo etc....ofcourse it would give you some benefit but i couldnt justify the cost

Edited January 8, 2009 by jaderd

[daviboy]

im thinking, keeping stock exhaust system.

Boxed SRI with cold air feed and ported headers.

I cant do some much cos of insurance. Im only allowed two mods, and once of them so far is the syspension upgrade.

Headers wont look any different at all. and intake would be my 2nd mod listed.

[jaderd]

intake may come under the one mod as exhaust modifications if you want to try for it...may get you another mod then....

ported headers i have listed as stock but "cleaned out" welds etc....so arent classed as a mod :)

maybe talk about that with insurance ppl

[taragasaurus]

im thinking, keeping stock exhaust system.

Boxed SRI with cold air feed and ported headers.

I cant do some much cos of insurance. Im only allowed two mods, and once of them so far is the syspension upgrade.

Headers wont look any different at all. and intake would be my 2nd mod listed.

I used to be with AAMI for insurance (is that who you are with?) i seem to remember intake on a NA car wasn't counted as a performance upgrade and didn't count. as for porting stock headers, hyperthetically if you were to put a claim in, the only way they could tell that the headers have been modified would be to remove them, look inside them with a torch and compare them to stock unmodified headers and KNOW what to look for. highly unlikely. would getting your front discs machined flat be counted as a "performance modification"?............so...........would getting the scrappy inside welds on your exhaust header machined be counted?..............heheh

[jaderd]

yeah true true......im with AAMI at moment.....i just told them all my mods so as to cover my *****.....and over 25 now so ok ne ways unlimited mods.....over 6 though and it adds 10 % to your premium for each extra mod....so i have only 6 as headers dont count etc....i mentioned sways and strut etc

[taragasaurus]

yeah true true......im with AAMI at moment.....i just told them all my mods so as to cover my *****.....and over 25 now so ok ne ways unlimited mods.....over 6 though and it adds 10 % to your premium for each extra mod....so i have only 6 as headers dont count etc....i mentioned sways and strut etc

did you ever get a quote from NRMA? the reason i changed from AAMI was because i moved one suburb away (where i had the car in outdoor apartment car space) to a lockup garage in what i believe to be a better area anyway and because of statistics and what their computer said, they upped my premium by another 50 a month from 165pm to 215. i do have the car insured for business purpose to, although am over 25 now with no claims and max no claim bonus.

i pay 177pm now with NRMA, unlimited mods allowed with no change to premium, which is handy. the only downside is that they will let you lower your car 30mm max (hence why i went whiteline control over king lows)

[daviboy]

im with AAMI but only 22. I have Lowering listed as my mod which hopefully covers front strut, rear sway, underbrace and springs.

So i wil just add intake to my policy and port the headers and it should keep me happy.

But my whole sound system is covered as an optional accessory.

[CME-LFT]

does anyone know of a good shop in sydney area?

id rather just get it all done at the one shop. installation etc than have to wait for headers to get shipped here etc.

Westside Mufflers in Padstow;

I had mine done a couple of months ago, drive in and drive out. Very happy with the result. and by the sounds of it CME-LFT did the same and is happy as well.

I also went to liverpool exhaust before getting anything done and spoke to a guy there who has a sportivo. said that his custom headers were better than porting stockies. they were long 4 into 2 with 2 flexes then into 1. he also said that the stock 2zz engine has smaller than 2 1/4 exhaust, so his ideal set up was a 2 1/4 as he said its bigger than stock and that 2.5" is too big and loud. I still decided to get the stockies ported the same as everyone else.

Yeh i got my cai and cat back from livo exhaust only AFTER reasearching this forum and listening to experience opions off fellow members.(i thought he would have more experience since he owns 2 which i dont think he really does)

The only problem with liverpool is that i dont trust there opinion too well. He recommended 2.1/4 cat back as 2.5inch was quit louder and that it would lag down low and seeing as most on this forum have good result with 2.5inch i chose that in the end. (no lagging problems, it is a little loud at times but i dont mind, a change of muffler would help that i guess)

When i rang up for his custom headers he said again that due to them being a bigger size they would cause lag down low, now i dont know if his setup was mostly made for top end power but designing something like that isnt too good for the normal street car that most owners go in to beef up a little bit. Also he said that with his setup on his (cai, 2.1/4inch cat and headers) he was pulling 122kw atw. which i think might be bull. But thats just me experience, in the end Im happy with the mods that are done so far.

I spoke to the guy at westside about porting the head, he said its not really worth it unless your doing cam work/internals, now seeing as my mechanical knowledge it pretty limited i was curious as to what the next approach would be in beefing up my car beside the computer as i would like to do that last once all mods are done and i only need to tune it once.

[taragasaurus]

does anyone know of a good shop in sydney area?

id rather just get it all done at the one shop. installation etc than have to wait for headers to get shipped here etc.

Westside Mufflers in Padstow;

I had mine done a couple of months ago, drive in and drive out. Very happy with the result. and by the sounds of it CME-LFT did the same and is happy as well.

I also went to liverpool exhaust before getting anything done and spoke to a guy there who has a sportivo. said that his custom headers were better than porting stockies. they were long 4 into 2 with 2 flexes then into 1. he also said that the stock 2zz engine has smaller than 2 1/4 exhaust, so his ideal set up was a 2 1/4 as he said its bigger than stock and that 2.5" is too big and loud. I still decided to get the stockies ported the same as everyone else.

Yeh i got my cai and cat back from livo exhaust only AFTER reasearching this forum and listening to experience opions off fellow members.(i thought he would have more experience since he owns 2 which i dont think he really does)

The only problem with liverpool is that i dont trust there opinion too well. He recommended 2.1/4 cat back as 2.5inch was quit louder and that it would lag down low and seeing as most on this forum have good result with 2.5inch i chose that in the end. (no lagging problems, it is a little loud at times but i dont mind, a change of muffler would help that i guess)

When i rang up for his custom headers he said again that due to them being a bigger size they would cause lag down low, now i dont know if his setup was mostly made for top end power but designing something like that isnt too good for the normal street car that most owners go in to beef up a little bit. Also he said that with his setup on his (cai, 2.1/4inch cat and headers) he was pulling 122kw atw. which i think might be bull. But thats just me experience, in the end Im happy with the mods that are done so far.

I spoke to the guy at westside about porting the head, he said its not really worth it unless your doing cam work/internals, now seeing as my mechanical knowledge it pretty limited i was curious as to what the next approach would be in beefing up my car beside the computer as i would like to do that last once all mods are done and i only need to tune it once.

the guy at livo said that he had before and after dynos of his car with the setups and that he would send them to me. what he said about sizes didn't make sense and every 2.5" setup is different. from what ppl on this forum has suggested, CES are one of the, if not ONLY company to have lots of proven success with their 2.5" catback setup. The livo CAI seemed fine, but obviously not as complex as getting the exhaust right. any intake replacement for the 2zz is going to lead to a noticable increase. the guy at livo never got back to me with his proof. i saw his car but never went in it.

i'll be changing my stock system for a CES catback this year sooner i hope

[kolourhero]

yeah i would do intake first if i was you....basically because it is best bang for buck and sounds great etc.......then id do rear muffler / exhaust ...whatever path you chose....so many opinions on here, id say do your research and as long as your happy thats all that matters.....then id go headers.....headers first yeah will do their same bit but for cost and increase (2-4kw) might as well go intake (ppl see 7-10kw in stivos) and rear muffler / exhaust (maybe 6-10kw again depending)

this is what me and my mates currently are at to do with IHE

Jaderd : TRD CAI, K&N Pod, Head2head Ported Headers, Xforce Varex Muffler

Kenji : CES CAI Drift Pod, Head2head Ported Headers, 2.5" Mandrel Bent SS Catback (stock resonator) + Xforce Varex

Kolourhero : CES CAI Drift Pod, Head 2 Head Ported Headers, 2.5" CES Mandrel Bent Catback

Guni : CES CAI Drift Pod, Head 2 Head Ported Headers, Stock Exhaust System

BKS : TRD CAI ITG Foam Pod, Head 2 Head Ported Headers, 2.5" SS Mandrel Bent Catback stock resonator) + Xforce Varex (118.2kw atw)

and before ANYONE starts another Dyno/Kw Debate.... all that needs to be said is... I cant wait till we can line all these cares up on a dyno on the same day!

Some stats all same day same dyno

Kolourhero got 117 KW wheel before porting the headers with his setup

BKS dead stock got 99.8kw

i got 108.9kw with only TRD CAI and a old quad tip rear muffler setup which was purely looks and sounds fair sure no good for performance

once we all get on dyno will be a good range of mods and base figures known to pull some comparisons......

yeah coating big price and not worth it for our NA cars that dont produce bugger all temp comp to turbo etc....ofcourse it would give you some benefit but i couldnt justify the cost

Just to clarify, i got 117.8 kw :P with an injen CAI and CES zorst, but now i have a CES CAI and ported headers so it'll be interesting to see what i get next.

That being said, most importantly my car is more drivable and i can feel it pull more than ever :)

[SILVABULLIT]

The guy from Liverpool exhaust is a *****. Enough said. He makes a lot of claims but real proof and physical evidence nobody has really seen. His theory of 2.25" is a joke. Maybe he owns a Levin and not a Sportivo where then 2.25" would be ok.

Custom headers with long primaries are generally to increase the torque of the engine. But in fitting something like this requires a complete mid section being remade and then modifying the wiring for the O2 sensor to reach as the sensor would be further back in the tunnel. A lot of work to be done before they can even be fitted to the car.

the stock Sportivo header design is essentially a 4-2-1 set up with shorter pipes. A custom set up is essentially the same but with longer pipes. The stock headers are almost equal length in design and for those who have actually removed a mid section and headers off their car you will notice the following....

The collector end of the stock mid section or down pipe has a divider in it. The headers pipes are paired in their firing orders so that 2 cylinders pipes fire into each side of the mid section. The pipe is also double walled which is mainly to reduce noise but also a bit stronger. This mid section with a divider in it goes almost to the cat convertor in fact you can see where it ends as the diameter of the mid section reduces down just before it enters the cat itself.

There is another mod that could be done for those who wish to try. I was going to remove the step down pipe section and make it the same size into the cat and see what it does to power etc on a dyno. But I no longer own a sportivo so someone else can have a go at being the Guinea Pig LOL

So all in all the stock set up is a 4-2-1 but designed in such a way that is requires little space and is essentially fairly efficient. I did look into getting CES to make me some headers with long primaries but the cost factor and knowing that the mods I was going to do to the car would be limited to simple bolt ons and no internal work as it was my wife's car I never persued it. CES said it would make more torque low down and mid range and aid a bit top end but without other internal work(cams etc) bang for buck it wasn't really worth it(like @$1200 for tuned length mandrel bent in stainless).

Ported stock headers is the way to go. Improve low to mid range out of sight and those like Northy who had TRD headers sold them and got ported Stock headers from CES and couldn't believe the difference.

I can personally vouch for Brad from Westside mufflers as I know him personally and his work is top shelf. If I were in Sydney I'd get him to port my stock headers and tidy them up any day.

My car made 121.8KW atw with CES cat back, CES ported headers, TRD CAI and an ITG pod filter. Car did this with 107 000k's on it as well. My car started stock with 105kw atw. Peak power figures shows a decent gain but the mid range where the torque hole between 4-6000rpm is was basically gone which was my aim right from the beginning to make the car nice to drive everyday intraffic.

[Guni]

i see it this way....

My system, from doing some shopping around.

Ported Headers and had them installed $260

2.5" Mandrel Bent Stainless Steel Cat Back $250

Xforce Varex Muffler $400 (goes loud for me, and quiet for when i want to be civilised)

how much is the CES catback again?

So what resonator do you have??? Or don't you have one at all......

Like Jaderd mentioned, he has a stock one put in. Your point?

X force Varex...... for those who cannot get a muffler to do the right job and make power without making ridiculous "noisepower".......

Prove it.

[SILVABULLIT]

i see it this way....

My system, from doing some shopping around.

Ported Headers and had them installed $260

2.5" Mandrel Bent Stainless Steel Cat Back $250

Xforce Varex Muffler $400 (goes loud for me, and quiet for when i want to be civilised)

how much is the CES catback again?

So what resonator do you have??? Or don't you have one at all......

Like Jaderd mentioned, he has a stock one put in. Your point? Stock resonator is a restriction with 2.5" system.

X force Varex...... for those who cannot get a muffler to do the right job and make power without making ridiculous "noisepower".......

Prove it.

Guni you of all people who should know that i have already proved it. Ever heard of the CES catback system??? I helped design it and then tested it on my car outlaying my own money. So spend some of your own money on some R & D and prove me wrong ro do you want someone else to do all the hard work for you. I've done my share would you like to do yours for the TOCAU community??

[Guni]

i see it this way....

My system, from doing some shopping around.

Ported Headers and had them installed $260

2.5" Mandrel Bent Stainless Steel Cat Back $250

Xforce Varex Muffler $400 (goes loud for me, and quiet for when i want to be civilised)

how much is the CES catback again?

So what resonator do you have??? Or don't you have one at all......

Like Jaderd mentioned, he has a stock one put in. Your point? Stock resonator is a restriction with 2.5" system.

X force Varex...... for those who cannot get a muffler to do the right job and make power without making ridiculous "noisepower".......

Prove it.

Guni you of all people who should know that i have already proved it. Ever heard of the CES catback system??? I helped design it and then tested it on my car outlaying my own money. So spend some of your own money on some R & D and prove me wrong ro do you want someone else to do all the hard work for you. I've done my share would you like to do yours for the TOCAU community??

*YAWN*

I'm asking you to prove what you said about the Varex Muffler not being able to do its job. Shut it off and it becomes quiet, opens it and you get more omph as it becomes a straight thru muffler. Seems to do its job to me.

Furthermore, no one ever said you didn't do what you did and how much is enough? Seen my sussy thread?

bla bla bla bla bla

could go on forever so I better not even start .......

I'm not here to re-invent the wheel, merely asking why. If its legit, y so worked up?

This just reminds me that I'm in a ZZEmo forum

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[SILVABULLIT]

i see it this way....

My system, from doing some shopping around.

Ported Headers and had them installed $260

2.5" Mandrel Bent Stainless Steel Cat Back $250

Xforce Varex Muffler $400 (goes loud for me, and quiet for when i want to be civilised)

how much is the CES catback again?

So what resonator do you have??? Or don't you have one at all......

Like Jaderd mentioned, he has a stock one put in. Your point? Stock resonator is a restriction with 2.5" system.

X force Varex...... for those who cannot get a muffler to do the right job and make power without making ridiculous "noisepower".......

Prove it.

Guni you of all people who should know that i have already proved it. Ever heard of the CES catback system??? I helped design it and then tested it on my car outlaying my own money. So spend some of your own money on some R & D and prove me wrong ro do you want someone else to do all the hard work for you. I've done my share would you like to do yours for the TOCAU community??

*YAWN*

I'm asking you to prove what you said about the Varex Muffler not being able to do its job. Shut it off and it becomes quiet, opens it and you get more omph as it becomes a straight thru muffler. Seems to do its job to me.

Furthermore, no one ever said you didn't do what you did and how much is enough? Seen my sussy thread?

bla bla bla bla bla

could go on forever so I better not even start .......

I'm not here to re-invent the wheel, merely asking why. If its legit, y so worked up?

This just reminds me that I'm in a ZZEmo forum

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I proved it mate the CES rear muffler doesn't need a flap to make power and doesn't make crap noises. The Varex needs the flap to stop noise or you'll get pinged by the boys in blue so it only works with the ricey crap sound they make.how restricted is it with the flap shut?? won't get pinged for having a CES rear can on your car as it tests DB legal.

As for a Varex Muffler being legal I guess you better ask RTA what they think of that one........

[Dav0]

Please dont turn this thread to *****, this is the most informative thread we have had around for some time. Keep the positve posts coming!

I purchuased the ported headers off BKS which I believe were done at "Head to Head, VIC" aswell, and I must say it was a good investment. Off the line go/Low Range has picked up significantly, revs feel much more free. The torque hole between 4-6000rpm seems to be non exsistant.

Currently running cai,headers,remus axle.

Would it be worth my while getting a more free flowing cat?

[Blind Kid Seeks]

my next dyno time in 2nd week of Feb.. i will show you the dyno graphs of the Varex open, and the Varex Closed.

As far as the boys in Blue are concerned... the muffler only barks when you give it 100% application.

its quieter than stock with the valve closed.

It doesnt drone.

It gives me the flexibility of a variable, throttle position dependant control system to make use of the increased torque with the valve closed.

My system cost HALF of what yours did and from what I can see, we have close to identical gains over stock.

Whats important is, that if you do the research and ask the right questions to the right people then you will get a result that will work in your favour. I didnt just pull inot a garage and say "make it faster" i spent the time making sure each mod would benifit my car, and gradually improve my driving experience.

I can happily potter around with the valve closed getting 8.5l /100kms and still hit lift, get a great induction noise, and smile. Also, i can hit the hills (or the track), open the valve, and get the top end kick the engine so desperately needs.

as for doing MY bit for the community..... i have done so.. proving you dont need to spend over $1.5k on headers and catback system for similar results.

I understand now why you so aggresively forward the CES details to everyone... just because you spent all your time and money on a cat back system that works, and works well.. doesnt mean that other people have to spend all that money too. there ARE other systems around.

No the Varex Muffler isnt Legal, you're right. But if your a d1ck with your car, then you deserve the canary.

[SILVABULLIT]

Please dont turn this thread to *****, this is the most informative thread we have had around for some time. Keep the positve posts coming!

I purchuased the ported headers off BKS which I believe were done at "Head to Head, VIC" aswell, and I must say it was a good investment. Off the line go/Low Range has picked up significantly, revs feel much more free. The torque hole between 4-6000rpm seems to be non exsistant.

Currently running cai,headers,remus axle.

Would it be worth my while getting a more free flowing cat?

the stock sportivo cat is very big for a 1.8L engine. It is actually bigger CFM wise as a Cat for a 3.8L commodore. for the amount of money to buy an aftermarket cat vs gains it just really isn't worth it. the gains would certainly be almost unnoticable.

[Simo]

All this worry about the jacks slappin a big pink sticker on yer windscreens LOL

my exhaust is ******en loud and nothing, they dont give a **** for noisy rollas...

[DANZZT231]

Some of the early members should remember TRD_141 with his twin-muffler (I think its actualy a RedBack muffler), two-tone colour Sportivo.

That car fly.

And the fact that he doesn't seems to really give a s**t whether or not is making power, he somehow did it.