LIFT Controller ???

[KT_haha]

The VTEC technology in the Honday cars is similar to the LIFT in our cars, when it hits a certain rpm, the VTEC will kick in and you can feel a sudden pull from the car. There are VTEC controllers available on the market that can change the rpm at which the VTEC kicks in. Is there somthing like that for the VVTL-i? That would be an interesting mod.....

[StylinBlackRollA]

The VTEC technology in the Honday cars is similar to the LIFT in our cars, when it hits a certain rpm, the VTEC will kick in and you can feel a sudden pull from the car. There are VTEC controllers available on the market that can change the rpm at which the VTEC kicks in. Is there somthing like that for the VVTL-i? That would be an interesting mod.....

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Kt_haha i don't know of the vtec controller your talking about but i've heard teggy type r tuners using piggy backs and re-tuning the vehicle so vtec kicks in lower rpm's. mods like this aren't easy and to change such things requires pro's and tuners. i'd say it'd be the same for the stivo.

[DANZZT231]

RUF performance did a celica with Power FC stand alone, and drop the lift to 5000rpm. The dude who tune is a respectable tuner for Honda, and he said the Celica goes as fast as Type R.

[KT_haha]

http://store.racinglab.com/elprod1.html

this is an example of the VTEC controller, it's electronically adjustable, it some how tricks the ECU to kick in VTEC at adjustable rpm's.

The VTEC technology in the Honday cars is similar to the LIFT in our cars, when it hits a certain rpm, the VTEC will kick in and you can feel a sudden pull from the car. There are VTEC controllers available on the market that can change the rpm at which the VTEC kicks in. Is there somthing like that for the VVTL-i? That would be an interesting mod.....

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Kt_haha i don't know of the vtec controller your talking about but i've heard teggy type r tuners using piggy backs and re-tuning the vehicle so vtec kicks in lower rpm's. mods like this aren't easy and to change such things requires pro's and tuners. i'd say it'd be the same for the stivo.

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[shaohaok]

y would u wanna change the lift point?

if u change to 4-5000rpm u're still going to get that kick at around 6000rpm. in fact it will be a longer wait.

unless for some reason, u can cram the same amount of air into the cylinders at 5000rpm as u would at 6000rpm, there isn't really a point.

all cams have a powerband. which is exactly why we have vvtl-i in the first place. revving an engine without making power is a pointless exercise. that's y we have a second cam profile to make thing more efficient at the top.

but anyway, vvt-i and vvtl-i isn't that easy to alter. coz toyota seems to have used some sort of cryptic code when they programmed the ECU. esp vvt-i since it's not one of those on-off applications, it's being varied all the time. lift doesn't engage strictly at 6000rpm, it varies around a couple hundred rpm.

anyhow, enough of my rambling, i found out about one of these babies a few months ago. almost forgot about it

http://www.power-enterprise.co.jp/main/pro...mcon/camcon.htm

[hideo]

http://store.racinglab.com/elprod1.html

this is an example of the VTEC controller, it's electronically adjustable, it some how tricks the ECU to kick in VTEC at adjustable rpm's.

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Simply, the ECU reads the RPM on one pin from the engine loom and sends a 'logic-high' on another pin back to the engine for the entire time the engine is in the VTEC rpm range. A VTEC controller sits in between and turns on VTEC at the programmed point.

I've recently looked into this myself and don't understand how the Toyota system could be any more difficult. I haven't read anything one way or other. There's been a lot of discussion of this on forums in the US and one device was pointed to and did both VTEC & VVTi (obviously only one at a time) but it looked VERY VERY CHEAP. I think the manufacturers could only HOPE that it was constructed from coconut husks in Jamaica by doped out Rastas, it looked that shoddy.

If I can find the post I'll edit this one and link is here.

[Doctony]

http://www.power-enterprise.co.jp/main/pro...mcon/camcon.htm

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arghh....i can't read jap

here is the tranalated version.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...6lr%3D%26sa%3DG

[StylinBlackRollA]

has anyone thought about changing the lift point and installing new cams at the sametime?

maybe that's the answer to changing lift points. if your not gaining power at a lower rev range then new cams would be an answer.

[Blade Hunter]

But lift locks all the valves open, if you do this when the revs are too low your going to bog your engine down by overfeeding it I would have thought.

[shaohaok]

there are no aftermarket cams at the moment. coz of the reason of ECU programming complexity and also vvt is adjusted physically by a motor at the end of the camshaft where the cam gears are. vvt is constantly being varied according to lots of different variables, decided by the ECU.

not that it's impossible if u have money and lots of it.

StylinBlackRollA, do u know how lift is engaged?

[Danthuyer]

has anyone thought about changing the lift point and installing new cams at the sametime?

maybe that's the answer to changing lift points. if your not gaining power at a lower rev range then new cams would be an answer.

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The only cams I have seen are from a company in USA - but they hadnt developed the exhaust cam yet :(

[oz_viking]

Once again, this has all been covered before, as you would have found out if you had used the search function.

E.g. http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/inde...wtopic=1036&hl=

and http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/inde...howtopic=93&hl=

etc. etc.

The major difference between i-VTEC and VVTL-i is that the Toyota change point is controlled electronically and mechanically, using an oil pressure check valve and water temperature. VTEC is only controlled electronically, hence is easy to change.

Also, as stated the lift change point is at 6000rpm for a reason, as that is where it is most advantageous for this particular engine and cam combination. I do find it interesting though, that the Lotus Exige will change at 5800rpm on upshifts, to more easily stay in lift. The power/torque loss this incurs may not be such a penalty in this case as their car weighs much less than ours, and would still accelerate outrageously whereas we would notice the difference...

But given a supercharger or turbo though, like the Exige 240R, and dropping the lift point to 5000rpm then becomes a feasible and desirable change.

[StylinBlackRollA]

there are no aftermarket cams at the moment. coz of the reason of ECU programming complexity and also vvt is adjusted physically by a motor at the end of the camshaft where the cam gears are. vvt is constantly being varied according to lots of different variables, decided by the ECU.

not that it's impossible if u have money and lots of it.

StylinBlackRollA, do u know how lift is engaged?

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honestly i don't know and haven't been looking into how lift engages. i own a 1zzfe.

[Northy]

here is a flash movie that explains lift its worth a look

[StylinBlackRollA]

here is a flash movie that explains lift its worth a look

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thanks northy.

hmm judging by that.. its clear to see how hard it is for improvement. i mean if they really had more money to throw around just say lifted the prices of the stivo's to the euro hatch levels... they could do wonders with the engine.

really interesting. i want lift!

[Blade Hunter]

Well not really hugely difficult, the oil pressure has to be a certain level but actually making it fill the resevoir which locks the pin in is done by the ECU. I just seriously doubt the usefulness of doing it, maybe lowering down by 200-300 RPM but no lower the engine will just cough and splutter it will be too low revs to flood it out with so much fuel and air.

[xoom]

There would only be 1 reason why you would want to drop the RPM's of when lift kicks in that i can see and its purely to do with shifting to the next gear and staying in lift as if ur racing your planning on trying to stay in the higher cam for as long as possible.

The guys r correct with regards to the fact if u drop it by to many rpm's then u will simply kill the engine and it wont perform at all.

My suggestion to you is to look at the other end of the rev range .... yes the 8200 rpm cut off (or 8350 ...lets not get into this argument again :P :P :P :P )

Many celica owners have successfully extended their red line out to 8800 rpms and there was a movie floating around on the forum of a celica that had done this. Very nice :D :D :D.... I probably wouldnt push it past 8600 rpm's but thats just me playing safe.

Either way to do this they use the apexi power FC and out of the box this does not fit the sportivo. I have seen a customized wiring loom for the stivo but they want an extra $1K for it so if you got the bucks ur already looking at $3K to do this mod

[grima88]

Check this out:

http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/expe...rtexige240.html

The Lotus Sport Exige 240R in More Detail

The Exige is, of course, built to the lightest specification possible without resorting to expensive and rare materials normally found in the rarified environment of Formula One or Aerospace Industries where weight reduction is often considered more important than cost. The performance improvements had to be made through increasing the power of the engine without significantly increasing the weight of the engine and therefore the overall weight of the car.

The standard Exige uses a 189 hp (141 kW, 192 PS) 2ZZ-GE 1.8 litre VVTL-i (Variable Valve Timing with Lift – intelligent) engine supplied by Toyota. This high revving engine is governed to a maximum engine speed of 8500 rpm with a change between two cams (a high speed cam and a low speed cam) at between 5800 rpm and 6200 rpm depending upon the operating conditions of the car.

The supercharged engine in the Lotus Sport Exige 240R has a maximum power output of 243 hp (181 kW, 246.8 PS) at 8000 rpm and a torque figure of 174 lbft (236 Nm, 24 kgm) at 7000 rpm. This vast amount of extra power and torque now available means that the cam change between the low-speed cam and the high-speed cam now takes place at around 4000 rpm giving a smooth and linear surge of power from 4000 rpm all the way to the maximum 8500 rpm.

The equivalent power output of a standard 3.0 litre engine was the target when the initial research and feasibility study got underway in the Autumn of 2004. Working closely with Lotus Engineering’s world leading Powertrain Research Team, the advanced 1.8 litre VVTL-i 2ZZ-GE engine was fitted with a supercharger and intercooler system

Apparently the Exige 240R can hit Lift at 4000RPM :o

[sportiyo]

i heard that u can use vtec controler on VTEC engines but not iVTEC engine, VVTLI is like iVTEC so maybe thats the reason its harder to tune??? but not sure

[xoom]

Check this out:

http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/expe...rtexige240.html

The supercharged engine in the Lotus Sport Exige 240R has a maximum power output of 243 hp (181 kW, 246.8 PS) at 8000 rpm and a torque figure of 174 lbft (236 Nm, 24 kgm) at 7000 rpm. This vast amount of extra power and torque now available means that the cam change between the low-speed cam and the high-speed cam now takes place at around 4000 rpm giving a smooth and linear surge of power from 4000 rpm all the way to the maximum 8500 rpm.

Apparently the Exige 240R can hit Lift at 4000RPM :o

ok before people go running out 2 get something to drop their car's cam change over point to 4K rpm's ill have 1 last go at educating ppl y u cant just do that then i leave it 2 someone 2 go and do it and see what happens ..... the magical figure of where 2 change low -> high cam is actually based on some fact believe it or not .... i know shocking right .... ok what fact is that ..... simple ..... its the point where the car stops making power on the low cam and the high cam is producing more power than the low cam .....

well how do u find this point ...... simple ..... u put the car on a dyno and u turn the high cam off and do a run ..... on the same plot do another run only this time turn the low cam off and only have the high cam on ..... where the 2 plots cross is where u should put the lift change over point .....

i heard that u can use vtec controler on VTEC engines but not iVTEC engine, VVTLI is like iVTEC so maybe thats the reason its harder to tune??? but not sure

the reason is actually VTEC works via a solanoid .... i.e. an on off switch .... lift on the other hand rely's on mechanical mechanism to lift the camshaft using pressure from ur oil ..... so not as simple as turning something on or off ...... hence y it took apexi so long 2 get a powerFC together

[grima88]

All good man I wasnt disputing that every1 with a sportivo go get the high-cam change over point of 4000RPM I was just shocked that they made it engage so early (Probably cos a supercharger does not need as much restriction down low to produce torque + superchargers benefit from more time to get compressed air in n out of the chambers... Am I correct?)

[Northy]

i proved this point to JC no less then a week ago, he was driving my car and said "can i have lift now?" we happned to be at 4000rpm, so i moved the lift point to 4,000rpm, the car almost when backwards as the cam was so far out of its power range it wasnt funny...mabey lotus run diff cams...

[Azza]

i proved this point to JC no less then a week ago, he was driving my car and said "can i have lift now?" we happned to be at 4000rpm, so i moved the lift point to 4,000rpm, the car almost when backwards as the cam was so far out of its power range it wasnt funny...mabey lotus run diff cams...

and when your trying to keep your car under 4500rpm then lift at 4000rpm is certainly a goal isn't it :P

[-JC-]

This was actually rather hilarious, the thing was screaming its little ringer out yet going slower than any sportivo I have ever driven.

We wont talk about me nearly soiling myself when corey then made the rev limit 4000rpm. . . . .

[GoHarD]

sooo... wat we need for reving it to 8,750 - 9000?

lol

just valve springs n valve?? n ecu ?