Traditional MT or DSG?

[dwee.]

What are people's views on this?

Disregarding all other factors, such as your missus not being able to drive manual for example ; or the amount of time spent driving in peak hour traffic; or DSG being quicker than MT, would you go MT or DSG if these were the options? A Golf GTi/R for example.

For some reason, I believe I would go for more traditional MT. I believe I would get bored of driving a DSG.. each to their own?

[jeffy]

traditional for me,

im in it for thte high pitched flutter that the bov releases after full throttle

*ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss[gets really high pitched here]ssu*

edit: disregarded dsg being quicker*

Edited August 5, 2011 by jeffy

[pezzie]

you thinking about getting a golf gti dwee? :P

if you disregard all other factors i think traditional manual will always win.

but once you take in all other factors, its what feels better to you in the end and suits your needs.

For everyday driving, id probably have to go with the dsg :D

[Noodle Boy]

This topic is quite intriguing to discuss. Each version has their own pros and cons. For example, the DSG changes gears quicker meaning better acceleration and better fuel economy, for the expense of an extra surcharge. And, it's only available for some models. The manual, conversely, is cheaper, often $2k cheaper than autos even, though not as quick as the DSG, but quicker and is more fuel economical than the auto. As you can see that performance-wise, the DSG wins. But since not everyone can afford a European car that's equipped with this 'option', it would be best to stick with a manual if possible. But despite saying so i do prefer the DSG.

[DJKOR]

I'd get the DSG, especially if getting a higher end car. It may essentially be like driving an auto at the end of the day, but getting the most performance out of it would be where I stand.

Stuff the whole 'manual is more fun' debate. I'd rather have more performance.

[Adamsy]

WELLL just so happens that a DSG equipped AWD Golf R is sitting in my drive way at the moment. And personally for me id go the DSG every day of the week. there is nothing this gearbox can’t do when compared to a manual, it awesome on the upshifts and the noise it make as it blips the throttle and double clutches the downshifts is simply awesome and possible along with the media centre and brakes handling is my favourite part of the car! sure a manual will still offer a more hands on feel but the DSG gives you 90% of the same hands on feel but with superior performance and fuel economy and even when driven around in "D" it’s hard to fault the box, downshifts perfectly when you jump on the brakes so you always have plenty of punch when you get on the right pedal again. Really can’t fault it, so yeah personally id some up the extra 2k with this car every day of the week!

[Branno]

DSG. Nuff said.

[Hiro]

For a road car - manual, all the way. If I wanted to change gears with a button or a paddle, I'd play the XBox.

Race/track car, may be a different story.

[dwee.]

Thanks guys, I thought I would post this discussion up because I knew there would have been different opinions on this. I think if I was older, I would get DSG or maybe my views are just too traditional?

And no I'm not getting a Golf GTi/R, although it's bloody tempting!

[ben yip]

If going for track, DSG is the option.

I no longer stuck in changing gear..

but I will still buy Manual, new technology gives me sh** trouble after like 10 years

[jeffy]

Thanks guys, I thought I would post this discussion up because I knew there would have been different opinions on this. I think if I was older, I would get DSG or maybe my views are just too traditional?

And no I'm not getting a Golf GTi/R, although it's bloody tempting!

Golf are awesome, drove my mates mkvi golf, very very silent, it could go with more braaap when floored imo,

[Adamsy]

mmm yeah you think the GTi is good, try the R. As mentioned earlier i have one to drive for a while and it's just amazing. the straight line speed isnt even something that catches your eye, it's not because it isnt quick but because the rest of the package is just so impressive! the brakes are very strong and powerful and stop the Golf hard on its nose all day every day without fail, the engine pulls hard and strong and the DSG gearbox does its bit to keep you moving quickly, running off perfect clean crisp fast shifts bang, bang bang one after enough (coming back down through the gears is more fun though :P)but its the nimble handling. Body control and fast sharp steering that really gets you. The R just does not do Body roll! i has a nice stiff chassis alive steering with sharp turn in with firm suspension that really lets it hold the road. The 4Motion AWD system quickly suffers power and torque around to where it needs it and the extended electronic differential lock works a trick! i didnt manage to get her our on the super twisty Targa Tas roads as this time of year there quiet icy and i really didnt want to put my bosses car into a bank or off a cliff lol but the roads i did cover were mainly fast flowing ones with a few sharper 25kms sign posted corners and it has to be said the R always felt like it was doing 40kms less then you was actually doing, it never even felt like it was half trying... more than a couple of times i looked down at the speedo and went crap! and then jumped on the brakes. You need to be very much be on the wrong side of the speed limit to even feel like youre giving it a go other than that it feels like your going for a Sunday drive thats how smooth, quiet and capable the car is. If thats a good thing or not Im still yet to decide lol. Means keeping up with your mates is a cinch but you never feel that rush you get when youre driving a car really well on a nice road. To get it youd need to be going very silly which of course if you did get it wrong youd be going off very very quickly and of course you wont have a license long if you get busted. Will be keen to see what its like in some really tight and twisty stuff.

[Tash]

I'd have to go the manual still, just for the pure love of driving and feeling of control. If I had the money for a much higher end car where I knew the DSG would be perfectly tuned, know to select the right gear when etc then I probably would go with one of those, but at the moment most of these cars have no clue what gear to be using when. I know the idea is you can still downshift/upshift yourself, but why would you do that half the time when you can just leave it in D? TBH apart from a few spirited runs I think there'd be pretty limited occasions where you'd change the gears yourself with the paddles/steering wheel buttons.

If living in the city though it'd have to be DSG, I don't think my left leg would appreciate the constant traffic jams! Would agree with the comments about getting older too, I can't see myself driving a manual once I've got kids etc. Plus the way cars are going with the tech now I don't see the traditional manual lasting too much longer with many makes and models unfortunately.

[Adamsy]

I'd have to go the manual still, just for the pure love of driving and feeling of control. If I had the money for a much higher end car where I knew the DSG would be perfectly tuned, know to select the right gear when etc then I probably would go with one of those, but at the moment most of these cars have no clue what gear to be using when. I know the idea is you can still downshift/upshift yourself, but why would you do that half the time when you can just leave it in D? TBH apart from a few spirited runs I think there'd be pretty limited occasions where you'd change the gears yourself with the paddles/steering wheel buttons.

If living in the city though it'd have to be DSG, I don't think my left leg would appreciate the constant traffic jams! Would agree with the comments about getting older too, I can't see myself driving a manual once I've got kids etc. Plus the way cars are going with the tech now I don't see the traditional manual lasting too much longer with many makes and models unfortunately.

the DSG system VW use in the sports models (Passat R36 Golf GTI, R & Sirocco R and Porsche’s PDK and Ferrari’s dual clutch systems are spot on the money. i couldn’t fault the gearbox once in the last few days. even when driving around town in D you'll never find it in the wrong gear because how dual clutch boxes work it’s in there DNA to rev/speed match and just like how they short shift under normal acceleration (the R is in 5th @46km/h) they quickly drop gears too so you always have good drive when you want it, that’s the whole reason for their design and creation. Adam Gowans my boss and successful race car driver just slots the Golf R in Sport mode and leaves it these days, He doesn’t touch the paddles as he found the gearbox was so spot on that when he did use the paddles the gearbox would select the next gear at the same time as he was selecting one on the paddle resulting in up shifting twice at the same time. So if the gearbox can shift exactly when a race car driver wants it too then i can’t see how people that don’t have the ability to get the best out of a car could have any dramas with it being in the wrong gear lol.

[DJKOR]

Yeah... I think some people are getting the wrong impression from a DSG. They are putting the DSG into the same boat as an auto, which is completely not the case.

On a side note, I think it would be interesting to see what the responses would be if the question was "If you had to pick between a manual and a DSG with no extra to pay, which would you choose?"

If you still happen to choose manual (don't know why you would, but hey, it's your choice), lets change the car to a high end supercar... would you still choose manual?

[Steven]

well the other think to consider with DSG is the method of shifting, whether they be steering wheel buttons/paddles or the traditional "stick" in the centre console.

DSG for outright performance any day of the week - its got consistency and its faster than anything a human with a manual box can do. It may not be as fun as throwing your weight behind a manual and dropping the clutch, jamming gears etc, but like DJKOR it comes down to your car.

If in a regular, not-overly powered street car, then a manual is fine and imo preferred. With a high output engine though, how much of the "fun" factor would be lost trying not to lose traction when your drop the clutch, or losing that "sweet" spot in the rev range because you lost too many RPM chasing a gear - in this case the DSG would let you enjoy the engine a heap more without being a detraction in its own right.

BTW as it's been mentioned, the difference between a DSG, Manual or auto is like Night/Day/Eternal darkness

[jeffy]

If you still happen to choose manual (don't know why you would, but hey, it's your choice), lets change the car to a high end supercar... would you still choose manual?

well played

how much hp we talking about ?

[SecaBoy]

i dont understand why people would still choose manual over a DSG. i wonder if its because they havent really driven one or if they have driven a dsg equiped car, maybe they havent driven it for long/hard enough...

"gives a better driving experience" is a reason why a lot of people claim they like manual more.

why?

because it gives you the ability to miss a gear change? or fuq a clutch? or put the clutch in to 'save fuel'?

i really dont get it.

for me, i want a gear change that is quick and hassle free. a quick and hassle free gear change will always give me a 'better driving experience'... :)

[ben yip]

i dont understand why people would still choose manual over a DSG. i wonder if its because they havent really driven one or if they have driven a dsg equiped car, maybe they havent driven it for long/hard enough...

"gives a better driving experience" is a reason why a lot of people claim they like manual more.

why?

because it gives you the ability to miss a gear change? or fuq a clutch? or put the clutch in to 'save fuel'?

i really dont get it.

for me, i want a gear change that is quick and hassle free. a quick and hassle free gear change will always give me a 'better driving experience'... :)

I agree with you... I stuff up few times from 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to 2nd on the track.... especially during braking, engine braking cannot be applied at the "changing gear time"

I still choose manual because I don't want the gear box gives me trouble after 100k km, which is not unpopular..

My old car stuff up because of the automatic gear box

However, on daily driving. If the traffic jam is bad, I definitely buy a DSG, unless you enjoy holding clutch in traffic jam!! Manual is still fun in normal road. I once drive an automatic with +/- a while ago, almost fall asleep

Edited August 7, 2011 by ben yip

[Hiro]

i dont understand why people would still choose manual over a DSG. i wonder if its because they havent really driven one or if they have driven a dsg equiped car, maybe they havent driven it for long/hard enough...

"gives a better driving experience" is a reason why a lot of people claim they like manual more.

why?

because it gives you the ability to miss a gear change? or fuq a clutch? or put the clutch in to 'save fuel'?

i really dont get it.

for me, i want a gear change that is quick and hassle free. a quick and hassle free gear change will always give me a 'better driving experience'... :)

For me at least, it's a case of driving involvement and feedback, as well as skill. Any numpty can press a paddle or push a sequential lever without lifting their foot off the accelerator, but the art of correctly matching clutch to throttle to shifting in my mind is one of the purest components of driving a car. If it is was purely about performance, then obviously yes I'd go with the DSG (which is why I said it'd be a different story for a race car), but for a daily/weekend thrash the feeling you get of heel-toeing into a corner and you slot the lever down through the gears, knowing that if you make a mistake you can only blame yourself, and extracting every last bit of performance out of both the car _and_ yourself is just brilliant. Same goes for electric vs hydraulic power steering (or even no power steering at all) - sure electric is lighter, less strain on the engine, more reliable and more accurate, but the mechanical feedback from the wheels that you really only get in a good hydraulic or non-power steering car is miles better.

In short, it's a connection between the driver and the car that all the computers, servos, 20-million clutches and flappy paddles in the world can't replicate.

[SecaBoy]

maybe we all get enjoyment out of driving in different ways...

for me, its the whole pleasure of getting the steering and power input and the braking all right as you go through the corners...rather than the gear shift.

the gear shift to me is just a means of getting you going...

[Hiro]

maybe we all get enjoyment out of driving in different ways...

for me, its the whole pleasure of getting the steering and power input and the braking all right as you go through the corners...rather than the gear shift.

the gear shift to me is just a means of getting you going...

You could probably argue that any input is just "a means of getting you going". To me, it is the entire combination of steering, pedals and gear shifts - they are all integral parts to the experience.

[Adamsy]

Guess it's a personal thing. But im with DJKOR on this one. i prefer the fastest car over having slight more feel from pushing a clutch in. guess that makes me sit of the side of the fence that says why do you want the slower car when it’s all meant to be about performance? But of course it's each to their own but how many people would buy a normal manual if the Dual clutch option was a no cost one?

[P_T]

Anything's preferable to auto. When DSG becomes standard, that's what I'm gonna pick. For now I'll stick to manual. I don't go on track day so ultimate performance is not on my list, specially not when my car is a 100kW corolla hatch.

The fun I get is from doing heel and toe trying to match the rev when downshifting near a corner, which is already kinda ruined by the laggy drive by wire system.

How's parallel parking with dsg? I heard its jerky.

Edited August 10, 2011 by P_T

[SecaBoy]

shouldnt be jerky at all.

i've never tried to be honest, but i cant see how it'd be 'jerky'..