Flashed by Red light camera, do you think I can appeal?

[ben yip]

Sydney, I was in parramatta road turning left into burwood road to burwood, as you can see in the link below, it is a 90 degree corner, when I just crossed the line, the red line flashed two times, then I stopped, my car was stopped at the middle 45 degree of the intersection, the speed I was doing was 15km/h (because I was turning left), my front bumper just touched the first white line of burwood road

Do you think I have made an offense in that case, since my car is stopped 45 degree at the middle of the intersection because I am in the progress of turning left

Will I receive the ticket, if so, how can I appeal if going to court, do I need to get a lawyer? because I got only 2 points left

This is accident to me and big shock.

Please click this for google image map http://maps.google.com/maps?q=parramatta+road+sydney+burwood+road&hl=en&ll=-33.868857,151.105388&spn=0.003577,0.008256&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=55.192325,135.263672&vpsrc=6&fll=-33.869079,151.104434&fspn=0.003577,0.008256&z=18&layer=c&cbll=-33.868834,151.105222&panoid=5Q5awXFH0ndKnuRz7bKHOw&cbp=12,64.31,,0,18.61

Edited September 6, 2011 by ben yip

[juvenile]

When you were stopped were your rear wheels past the line as well? You might have to wait and see Ben, if they won't book you for that,they can still book you for stopping in a intersection..

Touch and go on that one,see what comes in the mail, hopefully nothing

[JDM-GTFour]

I cant see the camera in google street view... the idea is to speed up when the light goes orange or brake hard! maybe it wasnt you driving at all.. wasnt your friend driving at the time? insert name here............... I dont think you can argue your way out of a red light camera... you can only hope it didnt catch your plate. good luck ben.. hope you can find a good mate to help you out..

[ben yip]

When you were stopped were your rear wheels past the line as well? You might have to wait and see Ben, if they won't book you for that,they can still book you for stopping in a intersection..

Touch and go on that one,see what comes in the mail, hopefully nothing

the rear just pasted the second line by probably 2 meters? do u think I can argue that I cannot stop the car in time?

i do not want to lost my license as I did not intend to cross the red light

[Andrew357]

I cant see the camera in google street view... the idea is to speed up when the light goes orange or brake hard! maybe it wasnt you driving at all.. wasnt your friend driving at the time? insert name here............... I dont think you can argue your way out of a red light camera... you can only hope it didnt catch your plate. good luck ben.. hope you can find a good mate to help you out..

Not it's not.

Police will pull you over for going through most orange lights, let alone if you speed up to go through it. If you have every opportunity to stop at an orange rather than going through, you should stop.

The only time I've seen someone get out of a red light camera fine was because he had a truck right up his ***** and he argued if he stopped the truck would have hit him (it was visible in the photo).

[Steven]

Exactly. Unless a significant safety issue presents itself, you are expected to be aware of traffic light signals and stop for them, even if the light if only yellow. It you are unable to stop safely on a yellow then you're not expected to -> however the timings for yellow lights are designed around what the speed limit is so if the light goes red when you enter the intersection, you should have stopped.

Failing to see the changing lights and responding in time for it can easily be considering driving with undue care and attention, and isn't a valid excuse for not stopping in time.

You'll have to wait until if you get a ticket or not, but if you don't have a reasonable excuse for not stopping prior to the white lines as you are supposed to I think you have zil chances of successfully appealing it.

[Charlie Trout]

You have to wait and see the photo of your car that the camera has taken. In NSW its a $350 fine plus 3 demerit points. If your driving record is good they will let you off in court with a section 10. If you decide to plead not guilty they might dismiss your case or even worse they might increase the fine. Best bet for free advice is to call up Law access (http://www.lawaccess.nsw.gov.au/), and to also go for a free sit down consult with a solicitor at http://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/ (go on the website to find the closest legal aid centre to your house).

[JDM-GTFour]

I cant see the camera in google street view... the idea is to speed up when the light goes orange or brake hard! maybe it wasnt you driving at all.. wasnt your friend driving at the time? insert name here............... I dont think you can argue your way out of a red light camera... you can only hope it didnt catch your plate. good luck ben.. hope you can find a good mate to help you out..

Not it's not.

Police will pull you over for going through most orange lights, let alone if you speed up to go through it. If you have every opportunity to stop at an orange rather than going through, you should stop.

The only time I've seen someone get out of a red light camera fine was because he had a truck right up his ***** and he argued if he stopped the truck would have hit him (it was visible in the photo).

Yes... I know...that was a joke of sorts... you didnt bold brake hard in my post. Im not all bad. :D

[DJKOR]

A red light camera typically will not be activated until the light is physically red. Now as for the accuracy of that statement, I can't judge but if you can provide evidence of one (the one that got you) triggering before hand, then you may have something there. Just thought I'd mention that because they can simply use that statement to say that you crossed the line after the light turned red... which in that case you will find it extremely difficult to fight.

[White Lightning]

end of the day buddy - if ur wheels are over the line - ur screwed... even the front wheels...

i've seen a traffic cop when there was no red light camera or anything involved successfully flash their lights and book someone because their front wheels where over the white line... i was in the car... he said that exactly what has been said earlier... there was no good reason for not stopping at the light and not stopping in time so it was either get done for running a red light or get done for undue care and attention - take ur pick...

[P_T]

TWO points left Ben? I thought you said you don't like to drive fast on the street? lol

Sorry but I don't think there's any way out of it if you do get booked. The only "good" thing is that you were caught by a fixed camera, which means you can give the RTA someone else's name and license. Maybe you have someone in your family, or one of your relatives/friends who has a full license but hardly ever drive? If you're extremely nice to them maybe they'll be kind enough to let you "borrow" their points.

[Ozzcaddy]

Were you the only car at the time that crossed the line when you were turning left, or was there another car going straight!

As mentioned by others you can be booked for going through on Amber, if you had sufficient time to stop.

Wait for the pictures (normally 2) to arrive before you can make any really comment on your car positions.

[ben yip]

TWO points left Ben? I thought you said you don't like to drive fast on the street? lol

Sorry but I don't think there's any way out of it if you do get booked. The only "good" thing is that you were caught by a fixed camera, which means you can give the RTA someone else's name and license. Maybe you have someone in your family, or one of your relatives/friends who has a full license but hardly ever drive? If you're extremely nice to them maybe they'll be kind enough to let you "borrow" their points.

I did reverse the car back to the white line after stopped, so not sure if I can use this to appeal, or saying that there was another car following me quite close, and I have to drive through because of safety reason. I was turning left, the spped is less than 20km/h in crossing the light

I did not drive fast at all. I was driving very slowly and misjudged the yellow light.. Most drivers are angry by following me because I was driving really slow... I did not speed at all most of the time

I will post the pictures for you guys to judge once receiving it..

You have to understand the psychological impact of having 2 points left, and you saw yellow light, you don't know what to react...

It was on night time

I hate driving on the street, so many things to take care....really hate it

I can tell you my history of offense, half of them are careless

1. Sep 2009 (3 pts) - Speed 20km/h in school zone, at that day, I was sick, and I was overtaking one vehicle, during overtaking, the school zone sign was on the left of me and painted on the ground.. I did not see it, I argue with the police that the school zone sign was flashing on one place and not the other..

2. Feb-2009 (3 pts) - Red light camera in silverwater and M4, due to misjudgement

3. May-2010 (1 pt) - driving 67km/h at 60km/h zone in Great Ocean Road Melbourne

4. July 2011 (4 pts) - driving 140km/h at freeway because it was a big down hill followed by up hill, and I drove at neutral gear, the whole journey did not speeding except that bit

5. (3 pts) Yesterday red light camera

a total of 14

Edited September 6, 2011 by ben yip

[zedder]

the new red light cameras also detect speeding. so if you speed up to get through an orange you'll get done for speeding anyway.

[Steven]

Sounds like a majority of your history is from careless mistakes -> I would take this as a lesson that you need to start paying closer attention to your driving. 140km/h is not something I think would have happened too easily and you should have been aware of that, but doing that sort of speed in neutral?

Maybe a few months without your license will have you paying more attention to the way you drive when you get it back.

[DJKOR]

... Most drivers are angry by following me because I was driving really slow...

Well that is their problem... not yours. Continuing to worry about that will eventually result in you speeding up to get out of their way and then making it your problem instead of their.

I did reverse the car back to the white line after stopped, so not sure if I can use this to appeal, or saying that there was another car following me quite close, and I have to drive through because of safety reason. I was turning left, the spped is less than 20km/h in crossing the light.

Reversing back is not going to help the appeal. It's like getting a speeding ticket and saying that once you got caught, you slowed down to the speed limit again. As for using the excuse of someone being too close to your rear, the photos will judge that one, so your possibility of trying to use that excuse can vary.

I wouldn't be getting your hopes up in trying to argue it.

My advise if you get booked for it, learn from your mistakes, be responsible for your actions, and take the suspension or Good Driving Behaviour.

[Ozzcaddy]

Forget about what other drivers think. You stick to the speed limits (not way slow) and obey the road rules especially traffic lights, and let the other drivers wear the consequences for their own actions if they break the road rules.

If you were driving really slow I would get around you if I could, if not, just would have to be patient until an opportunity arises to pass you.

Just gets back to being aware of your surroundings and what is going on and common sense.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Ozzcaddy

[KIRIUS]

if you were in nsw, you wouldnt of got done going right, but lefts another story.

[Andrew357]

Sounds like a majority of your history is from careless mistakes -> I would take this as a lesson that you need to start paying closer attention to your driving. 140km/h is not something I think would have happened too easily and you should have been aware of that, but doing that sort of speed in neutral?

Maybe a few months without your license will have you paying more attention to the way you drive when you get it back.

^ This man knows.

[P_T]

I did reverse the car back to the white line after stopped, so not sure if I can use this to appeal, or saying that there was another car following me quite close, and I have to drive through because of safety reason. I was turning left, the spped is less than 20km/h in crossing the light

I did not drive fast at all. I was driving very slowly and misjudged the yellow light.. Most drivers are angry by following me because I was driving really slow... I did not speed at all most of the time

I will post the pictures for you guys to judge once receiving it..

You have to understand the psychological impact of having 2 points left, and you saw yellow light, you don't know what to react...

It was on night time

I hate driving on the street, so many things to take care....really hate it

I can tell you my history of offense, half of them are careless

1. Sep 2009 (3 pts) - Speed 20km/h in school zone, at that day, I was sick, and I was overtaking one vehicle, during overtaking, the school zone sign was on the left of me and painted on the ground.. I did not see it, I argue with the police that the school zone sign was flashing on one place and not the other..

2. Feb-2009 (3 pts) - Red light camera in silverwater and M4, due to misjudgement

3. May-2010 (1 pt) - driving 67km/h at 60km/h zone in Great Ocean Road Melbourne

4. July 2011 (4 pts) - driving 140km/h at freeway because it was a big down hill followed by up hill, and I drove at neutral gear, the whole journey did not speeding except that bit

5. (3 pts) Yesterday red light camera

a total of 14

Come on now Ben. If you were driving very slowly, how can you misjudge a yellow light? You see a yellow light and you stop. With most yellow lights you get around 2-3 seconds before it turns to red. There's plenty of time to react, even for slow old people let alone for someone who has been to the track posting a very fast time.

There should also be a warning that there's a red light or safety camera. When I see a camera warning and the light has been green for a while, I slow the hell down and get ready to stop.

Driving in NSW is not the most enjoyable thing in the world, I get the sh!ts at people doing 20kph under the limit but I try the best I can to pay attention to my surroundings and I try to memorise the roads that I drive a lot on.

I'm sorry Ben, you're a good guy and I appreciate all your input but your reason sounds a bit weak.

Oh and driving downhill in gear actually uses less petrol than leaving it neutral (idling), and safer too in case you forgot you're actually in neutral.

[Hiro]

If you check the RTA website you'll see that the Parramatta Rd/Burwood Rd intersection is a safety camera, not just a red-light camera, and thus the flashes could be for someone else speeding through the intersection to miss the red. Personally, don't fret about it until you actually get a notice in the mail, otherwise you could be just working yourself up over nothing.

[ben yip]

Hi,from my memory, the first flash starts after half of my car has crossed the line, is that still considered OK?

Working out the calculations, i was doing 20km/h, assuming my car is 4 meters long, it will take 0.72 seconds for my full car to cross the line, that is a long time

[DJKOR]

Hi,from my memory, the first flash starts after half of my car has crossed the line, is that still considered OK?

If your car is over the line, after the light has physically turned red (which will be shown in the photo if you did get booked), they they have more than enough reason to fine you.

[stock]

If you check the RTA website you'll see that the Parramatta Rd/Burwood Rd intersection is a safety camera, not just a red-light camera, and thus the flashes could be for someone else speeding through the intersection to miss the red. Personally, don't fret about it until you actually get a notice in the mail, otherwise you could be just working yourself up over nothing.

saftey camera's can also be set off from turning...i have seen this happen many times..

the old red light camera doesnt tho..

Ben: i think if you stop then technically you didnt run the red light...so hopefully you dont get the fine

[Branno]

Mate, If you get a ticket, suck it up. It happens for a reason. It is there for a reason.

Appeal if you wish. Thats your descision. I'm sure you arent a child who needs someone to make life decisions for you.

By no means am I having a go at you. But sometimes life is just a bitch.