Oil Change Overkill

[Tony Prodigy]

3 hours ago, nzzr6 said:

What does Prime cost you? Every time i buy off amazon it costs a small fortune in shipping to New Zealand 😬

I also use Prime. At $6.99 per month it's pretty good value if you're like me who shops online a fair bit. Amazon isn't a bad place to shop. They just need to improve their packaging a bit more.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Tony Prodigy

[campbeam]

1 hour ago, LordBug said:

I don't remember if it's been brought up, but have you thought about sending an oil sample to be analysed Ash?

I have looked at the idea of getting an oil analysis. However for the cost, I can do another oil change or 2.

Planning upon doing an oil change to celebrate 2021. Still getting plenty of oil sludge particles in the oil filter cartridge.

[Tony Prodigy]

16 minutes ago, campbeam said:

Planning upon doing an oil change to celebrate 2021.

Haha, What a nice way to welcome in the new year ! 

[campbeam]

About a week ago, I dropped the oil and thoroughly cleaned the oil filter cartridge. Today, I dropped the oil but used separate containers for the main engine oil and oil from the filter housing.

Good news is that there was only sludge particles in the oil from the filter housing.

The 5 year fight with "Sludgy" continues.

I reckon that another road trip will give me the upper hand.

[L4WL3SS]

$25 on sale at autobarn

https://www.autobarn.com.au/nulon-full-synthetic-5w-30-long-life-engine-oil-5l-syn5w30-5

Edited January 25, 2021 by Metal_Head

[nzzr6]

I just went to do an oil and filter change on our Rav that's been serviced exclusively by Toyota for the past five years. I now need to buy a new cap wrench as my impact gun has pretty much multilated the socket hole. Not even a breaker bar would budge it. I don't think I'll be back. 

[Tony Prodigy]

1 hour ago, nzzr6 said:

I just went to do an oil and filter change on our Rav that's been serviced exclusively by Toyota for the past five years. I now need to buy a new cap wrench as my impact gun has pretty much multilated the socket hole. Not even a breaker bar would budge it. I don't think I'll be back. 

Ouch !! Brings back memories when I stupidly missed the little bit of info on the oil filter housing which stated to tighten it to 25nm not 2500nm !!

But for Toyota service to miss this is pretty bad. I'm suspecting the apprentices may be the ones doing this without the proper guidance.

I went through a few removal tools as mine was stuck on good and proper. My Plan B was buying a new Genuine Filter housing in case I had to mutilate it, but thankfully the OMIK removal tool saved the day. 

Remember this Thread ?

https://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/57498-aurion-oil-filter-housing-removal/

[nzzr6]

7 minutes ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Ouch !! Brings back memories when I stupidly missed the little bit of info on the oil filter housing which stated to tighten it to 25nm not 2500nm !!

But for Toyota service to miss this is pretty bad. I'm suspecting the apprentices may be the ones doing this without the proper guidance.

I went through a few removal tools as mine was stuck on good and proper. My Plan B was buying a new Genuine Filter housing in case I had to mutilate it, but thankfully the OMIK removal tool saved the day. 

Remember this Thread ?

https://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/57498-aurion-oil-filter-housing-removal/

Sure do!! 

 

I was thinking of swapping over to an aluminium housing as I've got a spare one for my Aurion and I'm pretty sure they're the same. Have just put the plastic  housing back on for now..... Not gorilla tight. 

[Tony Prodigy]

4 hours ago, nzzr6 said:

Sure do!! 

 

I was thinking of swapping over to an aluminium housing as I've got a spare one for my Aurion and I'm pretty sure they're the same. Have just put the plastic  housing back on for now..... Not gorilla tight. 

If the plastic one is still ok just keep using it and keep the spare for when you really need it. 

[campbeam]

Just done another oil change at 226571 kms using my overkill oil change process. Initial flushing of the engine was with diesel. I refilled the engine via the PCV opening in the valve cover to help flush any sludge particles out of the oil baffles in the valve cover. I was thinking about repeating the diesel flush but there were no obvious sludge particles so proceeded to the final flush using new 15W-40 engine oil [previously bought on special].

End result is very clean or cleanest possible engine internals before filling with Nulon 5W-30 Full Synthetic engine oil and a new oil filter cartridge. Plan now is to keep track of when the engine oil changes colour on the dipstick from clear to a light golden colour. 

[KAA]

Sounds like it is getting better and better Ash, I am sure all this hard work is worth.

KAA

[donnot]

21 hours ago, campbeam said:

End result is very clean or cleanest possible engine internals before filling with Nulon 5W-30 Full Synthetic engine oil and a new oil filter cartridge. Plan now is to keep track of when the engine oil changes colour on the dipstick from clear to a light golden colour. 

Good to hear there isn’t any visible sludge! I’ve found that the colour of the oil changes greatly between brands (of fully-synthetic 5W-30 oil). Parents’ Kluger did 10000km on the Valvoline Synpower and was only a light gold colour. Used Castrol Magnatec for the next change which was looking the same after only 4000km. Nulon was somewhat in-between these two - closer to the Synpower.

Probably need to get some samples for proper testing to get an idea of the actual condition of the oil :/. 

I’ve only used Magnatec (early on) and Nulon (now) in my car for 3500-4000km intervals). The Nulon turns a light-medium golden colour after then, so I’m interested to see how yours looks. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by donnot

[campbeam]

1 hour ago, donnot said:

I’ve only used Magnatec (early on) and Nulon (now) in my car for 3500-4000km intervals). The Nulon turns a light-medium golden colour after then, so I’m interested to see how yours looks. 

Thank you for that bit of information. I bought my Aurion about 5 years ago at 165K knowing that it blew white smoke on startup. Discovered later that it was due to oil sludge particularly in the baffles in the valve cover. On a previous oil change, oil turned a medium-dark golden colour after approx. 800kms. Next oil change was with Shell Ultra and colour changed happened in approx. 500kms. Bit annoyed at the time until I realised that the Shell Ultra was performing better at cleaning the engine with more detergent additives. I will have to check my maintenance spreadsheet but approx. 1500kms for this just replaced engine oil. 

Current thinking is to do the next oil change in 3 months time but if it still looks clear or just a light golden colour then extend to 6 months.

[donnot]

29 minutes ago, campbeam said:

Thank you for that bit of information. I bought my Aurion about 5 years ago at 165K knowing that it blew white smoke on startup. Discovered later that it was due to oil sludge particularly in the baffles in the valve cover. On a previous oil change, oil turned a medium-dark golden colour after approx. 800kms. Next oil change was with Shell Ultra and colour changed happened in approx. 500kms. Bit annoyed at the time until I realised that the Shell Ultra was performing better at cleaning the engine with more detergent additives. I will have to check my maintenance spreadsheet but approx. 1500kms for this just replaced engine oil. 

Current thinking is to do the next oil change in 3 months time but if it still looks clear or just a light golden colour then extend to 6 months.

Interesting... I do drive my car hard-ish at times but average 11.5-12l/100 with not much highway mileage (for reference) on 98. 

When I got the car, the previous owner did the terrible “recommended” 15k interval (slightly more often thankfully), so it was a bit dark initially but fine after a couple of changes - letting the engine get to full operating temp then instantly draining and pouring a couple-hundred ml of fresh oil through. Much less thorough than your method though 😁

 

[campbeam]

33 minutes ago, donnot said:

 letting the engine get to full operating temp then instantly draining and pouring a couple-hundred ml of fresh oil through.

I do that too to displace any residue old oil out of the bottom of the engine pan.

I do a lot of short distance driving so the engine oil does not get up to full operating temperature for long enough to help get rid of contaminants. In fact, it is a recipe for promoting the formation of oil sludge. Hence why I use an OVERKILL or EXTREME oil change method which is quite lengthy.

One of the advantages of being DIY is that I can be so pedantic or as we say at work, anally retentive. 😁😁

[Tony Prodigy]

8 hours ago, campbeam said:

letting the engine get to full operating temp then instantly draining and pouring a couple-hundred ml of fresh oil through.

That's a good idea Ash. Looks like the persistence is starting to pay off. 

Only thing is now, what are we going to call "sludgy" now that it's nearly sludge free ??

Might have to take a poll on that one 😄

[campbeam]

12 hours ago, Tony Prodigy said:

Looks like the persistence is starting to pay off. 

Only thing is now, what are we going to call "sludgy" now that it's nearly sludge free ??

All that drive train maintenance with regular fluid changes is paying off. 

"Sludgy" gave me a nice thrill on Saturday before the oil change with lots of torque going from 60kph to 80kph on the highway. Now waiting for the next road trip to see if she has got all of her zip back just like 2017.

[ZZT86]

Any idea of the total cost of de-sludging Ash since the begininng?

[campbeam]

4 hours ago, ZZT86 said:

Any idea of the total cost of de-sludging Ash since the begininng?

Lets say 25 oil changes with additional flushes and oil filter cartridges. Approximate total cost being $1100 over 5.5 years.

Normal oil changes [with diesel flush] every 6 months = 11 = $450.  Extra costs for de-sludging = $650.

Costs are reduced because I have been using non-genuine filters [$3-$4] and oil was bought on special usually at 40-50% discount. Also oil being used changed from mineral to semi-synthetic to full synthetic.

In hindsight, would have been quicker and cheaper to remove and clean the front valve cover plus also remove the engine pan and clean the oil pump.

My decision at the time not to disturb the engine and potentially have future oil leaks.

[ZZT86]

If it's worked for you ten great ;) Would've been expensive to have someone teardown the motor to flush it out anyhow.

[Tony Prodigy]

On 3/2/2021 at 5:43 PM, campbeam said:

In hindsight, would have been quicker and cheaper to remove and clean the front valve cover plus also remove the engine pan and clean the oil pump.

My decision at the time not to disturb the engine and potentially have future oil leaks.

I totally agree. Once you start fiddling with too many things, you can induce more issues going forward. Sometimes the long way around is better and the challenge is more fun I reckon.

[Tony Prodigy]

I just came across this video and I thought of Ol' Sludgy. I thought this could be another great way to de sludge. Probably wouldn't Kerosene but diesel instead. The process he uses has some merit though do you think ?

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Tony Prodigy

[campbeam]

I have previously viewed that video a few times. It certainly does have merit for getting the engine as clean as possible before adding the new oil. He uses a very conservative approach which would be OK for relatively clean engines. There is another video, where the engine is idled with a diesel and oil mixture.

For many years, [40+], I have dropped the old engine oil then filled with diesel and idled the engine for about 5-10 minutes. On my 1975 Honda Civic, I would watch the exhaust and turn off the engine when I could see visible whitish exhaust gases indicating that the diesel was getting past the oil rings. Very different matter with modern engines and tighter clearances so idling the engine for approx. 10 minutes.

When the engine has accumulated a significant amount of oil sludge, you need a much more aggressive approach to get the engine as clean as possible before adding the new oil. After running the engine with diesel for 10 minutes, I repeat the process with new [unused] diesel. This diesel is kept for the next time. Before I was not too concerned about any residue diesel as this would help to desludge the engine. Now that the engine appears to being close to being desludged, I am using a cheap oil to flush the engine before adding new quality full synthetic engine oil.

[Tony Prodigy]

5 hours ago, campbeam said:

I have previously viewed that video a few times. It certainly does have merit for getting the engine as clean as possible before adding the new oil. He uses a very conservative approach which would be OK for relatively clean engines. There is another video, where the engine is idled with a diesel and oil mixture.

The poor guy got torn to shreds in the comments regarding the use of Kerosene. I've not got any idea on a chemistry level why but they are referring to inner seals what not reacting to the kero making them brittle, which is probably why diesel is the commonly preferred 'solvent'.

Desludging is messy and time consuming not to mention somewhat costly. Would be better if everyone changed their oil more frequently instead of following the stupid log book service. What a false economy that is !! "Extended oil service intervals to reduce running costs"....🙄 Only when it's starts blowing white smoke and your engine is crying out is when you will start feeling the pinch.

[campbeam]

Just came across this YouTube video showing  a 2nd flush when doing an oil change. Good comparison shot towards the end showing how much residue has been cleaned with the 2nd flush.