How are Harleys Legal ????

[xoom]

Ok after hearing a few harley's pass by i thought i would re-look through the ADR laws and i still cant put 2 n 2 together as to how they are legal ....... adr 28 and now adr 83 are the laws of governance and i just cant see how on earth they would pass a dB test ....... seriously i just cant

any thoughts / ideas on the matter ? or are they simply in a class not covered by either of these ADR laws ?

http://www.dotars.gov.au/roads/motor/design/adr_online.aspx .... all the ADR articles

[Azza]

Cause Harley's are usually owned by bad a$$'s with guns

[SuperDave]

Cause Harley's are usually owned by bad a$$'s with guns

who also don't realise they are rubbish.

[2ZR - FE]

Cause Harley's are usually owned by bad a$$'s with guns

hahaha lol nice one +1

[Leroy]

You generally find that harleys are registered legal. But once past registration, custom resonators and the like are slapped on to give that outlaw sound. Same deal for those tools that drive around on their 'west coast' or 'orange county' choppers...

Its really no different to try hard rice boys that get their car registered, then go out the next day to find the biggest milo tin available to make it sound 'fast'.

[CAP]

I think it's also because the adr applies to certain rpm, so in the case of a hog, they tend to be their ear bleeding loudest when under load at their peak rpms. So perhaps they are tested below those rpms in a drive by situation

[wishbone]

yeah i agree with xoom....defect them...they kill my ears when they pass by.....i need a new sound system to drone out their stupid noise!!

Edited February 8, 2008 by wishbone

[Mr Slippy]

Maybe we should cut our exhausts at the manifold and see if they like it. :D

[xoom]

You generally find that harleys are registered legal. But once past registration, custom resonators and the like are slapped on to give that outlaw sound. Same deal for those tools that drive around on their 'west coast' or 'orange county' choppers...

Its really no different to try hard rice boys that get their car registered, then go out the next day to find the biggest milo tin available to make it sound 'fast'.

look i agree dont get me wrong ...... however ..... every rice boy is being pulled up by cops defect this defect that ..... im gonna go out on a limb n say every harley ive ever noticed has been what ill class as the WAY over the dB limit category and ive yet to see a single one pulled up .....

I think it's also because the adr applies to certain rpm, so in the case of a hog, they tend to be their ear bleeding loudest when under load at their peak rpms. So perhaps they are tested below those rpms in a drive by situation

mate the testing according to ADR is to be done at 75% of the rpm range where the motor produces peak power ...... so in theory for a stivo @ 7800 peak power = testing @ 5850 rpms ..... which cracks me up becuz ive heard the cops ask guys to rev to 4K which is well below where it needs to go to ..... lol

[Buddha]

Ok after hearing a few harley's pass by i thought i would re-look through the ADR laws and i still cant put 2 n 2 together as to how they are legal ....... adr 28 and now adr 83 are the laws of governance and i just cant see how on earth they would pass a dB test ....... seriously i just cant

any thoughts / ideas on the matter ? or are they simply in a class not covered by either of these ADR laws ?

http://www.dotars.gov.au/roads/motor/design/adr_online.aspx .... all the ADR articles

I went to the link you provided, and I might have missed something, but I looked at the definitions of different types of vehicles, then looked at the noise ADR's, and motorcycles aren't listed for that ADR ... tricycles/trikes and mopeds/scooters are, but not two-wheeled motorbikes.

Where I work is just up the street from Morgan and Wacker, the Harley supplier in Brisbane, and that street can get bloody noisy during the day! <_<

[MT]

Bill i'm pretty sure the ADR for exhaust note says it is measured at 50% max revs, from 2 meters away on a 45 degree angle in an open area. But, it may have changed, so please feel free to inform me.

Is this also a good topic to mention the new ADR which has been created based on drive by (intake) noise??? I wonder what kind of cars contributed to this rule being created.

[theDefiant1]

I asked a cop the same thing about motor bike noise and received a verbal shallacking like I've never heard from a cop before...

[Leroy]

I asked a cop the same thing about motor bike noise and received a verbal shallacking like I've never heard from a cop before...

Yeah but did you ask him when being pulled over for something?? Or did you just randomly approach him in the street to the tune of "Oi! How come you lot never pull over the bikies..."

:P

[xoom]

I went to the link you provided, and I might have missed something, but I looked at the definitions of different types of vehicles, then looked at the noise ADR's, and motorcycles aren't listed for that ADR ... tricycles/trikes and mopeds/scooters are, but not two-wheeled motorbikes.

Where I work is just up the street from Morgan and Wacker, the Harley supplier in Brisbane, and that street can get bloody noisy during the day! <_<

Looks like ADR Appendix B covers all the motorcycle stuff ....

Bill i'm pretty sure the ADR for exhaust note says it is measured at 50% max revs, from 2 meters away on a 45 degree angle in an open area. But, it may have changed, so please feel free to inform me.

Is this also a good topic to mention the new ADR which has been created based on drive by (intake) noise??? I wonder what kind of cars contributed to this rule being created.

ok doing more reading this is whats in the documentation states .... and OMFG its a legal mess these documents and serious i struggle to see how all the police actually understand them becuz i dont think they do.

in this document mick its explained http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislatio...ppendix%20A.pdf

Now this is for a stationary test

3.2.5.3.2.1. The engine is operated at a constant speed having the following value: 3/4 S for both controlled ignition engines and for diesel engines.

S: engine rotation speed as indicated under item 9 of annex 1.

Annex 3 - Appendix shows pictures of how they set the car up for stationary testing ..... Now i couldnt find it but i was sure there was mention of the reason its 3/4 S is because S needs to be where the engine makes its max power output.

There is also a vehicle in motion test which i wont cut and past the conditions here because its a pain to understand unless u read the whole section. Its section 3.1. It also alters for manuals vs automatics vs cars with other 225kw so there are a crap load of conditions. It is under this test that it refers to 50% of S however like i said there are a whole heap of conditions that must be met before this is the case.

Im guessing its easiest for the police to remember ..... i.e. look for redline on the tacho ok boys go to half way up it ..... but just goes to show that even they dont understand their own rules

[Leroy]

Im guessing its easiest for the police to remember ..... i.e. look for redline on the tacho ok boys go to half way up it ..... but just goes to show that even they dont understand their own rules

Sorry to be a whiney b1tch...but remember, its not their rules... they just get fed the paper and are expected to uphold it...

[xoom]

Im guessing its easiest for the police to remember ..... i.e. look for redline on the tacho ok boys go to half way up it ..... but just goes to show that even they dont understand their own rules

Sorry to be a whiney b1tch...but remember, its not their rules... they just get fed the paper and are expected to uphold it...

true to a certain extent .... but at the end of the day if they are being asked to govern and implement then they need to know it ....... and in reality it does become their rules becuz they are the ones out there in the field trying to enforce it .....

[MT]

Im guessing its easiest for the police to remember ..... i.e. look for redline on the tacho ok boys go to half way up it ..... but just goes to show that even they dont understand their own rules

Sorry to be a whiney b1tch

We're getting used to it :P

I know what u mean Leroy, but I do agree with Bill as well, when laws are introduced they will only ever be successful if they are able to be enforced. Therefore, the enforcer becomes the owner of said rules. Its just the way our society works. All the laws are in place to protect the stupid. (which sadly is becoming the majority)

[e240]

I am a rice boy too...but my techo reads redline @ 6000rpm but my car makes power till 9000rpm. :-p

[selyaT]

they tend to be their ear bleeding loudest when under load at their peak rpms

I think "under load" is the operative word here... have you seen some of the "Fat Boys" these days?

Harleys are way too loud to be legal.

I'm on Bill's side.

Edited February 17, 2008 by Tayles

[saintly]

these things are loud but don't they have a toggle switch that makes them louder?

[Leroy]

Im guessing its easiest for the police to remember ..... i.e. look for redline on the tacho ok boys go to half way up it ..... but just goes to show that even they dont understand their own rules

Sorry to be a whiney b1tch

We're getting used to it :P

I know what u mean Leroy, but I do agree with Bill as well, when laws are introduced they will only ever be successful if they are able to be enforced. Therefore, the enforcer becomes the owner of said rules. Its just the way our society works. All the laws are in place to protect the stupid. (which sadly is becoming the majority)

Oh for sure, I really do agree with that. I probably shouldn't have been so ambiguous. What I meant, which you got of course, is that the police aren't engineers who designed this test, and therefore probably don't exercise every caution in ensuring that conditions are going to be optimum to pull out the decibel meter. They merely get a memo passed around the office saying 'read up on whatever updated piece of legislation' - and yes, you would expect that everyone would be a little more collectively consistent...

What I am more getting at, though, is how many of those officers are now going to be bothered carrying that test out rigorously everyday? They have more than enough things to do with their day, so standing on an already noisy road giving clinical dB tests to every random car they pull over for an inspection/RBT is not that high on the list... And of course, a lot of them are car/bike enthusiasts themselves...

So as lazy as the 3/4 to redline rule of thumb is, it actually probably saves a lot of people (on this forum included) from a ticket, as the car in question does not in fact hit appropriate power. If you fail at that dB level, then your car is unquestionably defectable anyhow. And at the end of the day, if you are not cruising around in an obscenely aggressive looking vehicle/driving like an idiot/blasting overly loud music - what really is the chance they are going to pull you over jut to check your vehicle over?

(haha - which of course, unfortunately, still leaves the harleys on the road :P )

[selyaT]

Canberra police don't have dB meters. One of the airport police told me. Apparently the only way you can be dB tested in the ACT is if one of those roadside inspection vehciles gets you. But that doesn't explain how Mick got his exhaust dB tested by a police officer at the bottom of the street one day... Unless it wasn't a dB tester at all, just a scare tactic.

[Rolla Boy]

I find this thread quite funny...

My dad's had a few Harleys and they've been as loud as possible lol...

Got nothing to do with ****** ppl off, it's just the culture and it'll never die :) :) :) ...

[qkslvr]

oh! i assure you cops will put over bikes for noise! I have a fine in my wallet to prove it. hehehe

as for cops not harassing bikes...well lets just say; it's all about discrestion. The same way Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini's don't get pulled over for not having a front number plate but your rice-boy civic will. that's the way the world turns with these matters. I agree that Harley's are unneccesarilly loud but the louder the bike the least likely you are to drive next to them like a knob and race them. or even worse, change lanes right into them because you "didnt' know where he pulled out from".

[colinla]

i have to ask the question who is most dangerious a car driver with his radio that loud that the driver can't hear a thing or a harley that you all can hear so we all don't run over him.