TRD Aurion 3500 GSV40R engine failure

[TRD 269]

I have had my TRD engine blown up by a punk apprentice taking it for a "pre" test drive and I really find it hard to figure out what the hell he was doing or done to have broken a con rod and shatter a piston. Obviously, I am one of the happiest people around over my 3500SL being violated, tortured and then murdered. My limited edition is now damaged goods and will never be the same TRD Build no 269.

My questions are;

1. Has anyone heard of or had an engine failure with one of these motors?

2. With that type of damage going on in the motor, would i be looking at damage being caused to the gearbox or anything else?

[conroe]

My limited edition is now damaged goods and will never be the same TRD Build no 269.

Yes you are absolutely right, literally.

I had a RAV4 with the manual gearbox issue recently. I took it to the dealer to get it fixed under warranty. When I got it back, I had numerous other issues and Toyota Australia wasn't much of a help. And that wasn't even a full engine rebuilt <_< .

Suffice to say, I had enough of the problems and traded the car in.

Edited September 18, 2010 by conroe

[Steven]

Recent experience has taught me that these engines can cop a fair bit of abuse, although under certain circumstances can be prone to detonation and/or intake flutter which is bloody hard to explain and still something that Daryl and I are only making an educated guess with.

However the detonation is cause for concern, as under heavy, frequent acceleration with full throttle you can sometimes get detonation which can damage pistons etc like as you explained however its hard to imagine the detonation getting that bad before the engine management stepped in and put the car in limp home mode.

As for damage extending elsewhere, the destruction itself should be very limited to within the engine itself- however the nature of driving that caused that in the first place would warrant a closer inspection of the gearbox as well I think.

[DJKOR]

These engines can take quite a bit of a beating so I would imagine that for someone to do some serious damage, they would have had to thrash the car REALLY (and I mean REALLY) hard or there must have been a fault prior. I believe my TRD had a brief period where it was getting some serious detonation (potentially... since this is what Steven helped me define the sound as), and a case where the engine cut all throttle input for a few seconds after what appeared to be the engine running lean and misfiring (?).

That said, those problems I experiences (especially the apparent detonation) occurred after many many WOT accelerations where 2nd and/or 3rd was revved out completely. Also from uphill climbs where there was WOT with really gradual acceleration due to the hill climb. I also have a modified intake, so that may also be playing a slight part in my engine behaviour.

As mentioned though, the car was being pushed pretty hard at the time (getting close to the hardest I've pushed it before.. including my last Sportivo), so even though there should never have been issues in the first place, I can kind of say that the causes to those issues were explainable.

But anyways, what this al means is that under normal situations, your engine shouldn't have blown up that easily. If there was 91 (or even possibly 95) RON fuel in the tank though and the car was given a thrashing.... well, that may cause some potential issues. I'd be trying to find out what exactly has been damaged so you can at least try to figure out the circumstances that led to that.

[TRD 269]

Fuel would definatly not be the cause on my behalf as my missus has had her life ending speach over the issue to only ever put 98octain in it, and 99/100 times we get fuel at the same BP around the corner, if I do have to put something else in it, I have this really ill feeling about it so only the min amount will go into the tank to get me to the next BP98. puting other fuel in it is like eating something that you just know is not going to sit well in your guts for the next couple of days.

[DJKOR]

Fuel would definatly not be the cause on my behalf as my missus has had her life ending speach over the issue to only ever put 98octain in it, and 99/100 times we get fuel at the same BP around the corner, if I do have to put something else in it, I have this really ill feeling about it so only the min amount will go into the tank to get me to the next BP98. puting other fuel in it is like eating something that you just know is not going to sit well in your guts for the next couple of days.

Well define to me what you call a:

"pre" test drive

Because to me, this sounds like it happened pre-delivery which means despite requests, you still could hae had 91/95 RON in the tank.

[Steven]

Fuel would definatly not be the cause on my behalf as my missus has had her life ending speach over the issue to only ever put 98octain in it, and 99/100 times we get fuel at the same BP around the corner, if I do have to put something else in it, I have this really ill feeling about it so only the min amount will go into the tank to get me to the next BP98. puting other fuel in it is like eating something that you just know is not going to sit well in your guts for the next couple of days.

Well define to me what you call a:

"pre" test drive

Because to me, this sounds like it happened pre-delivery which means despite requests, you still could hae had 91/95 RON in the tank.

Could there actually be any TRDs that have not yet been delivered? If so that's worse than the Ford GT debacle

[DJKOR]

Could there actually be any TRDs that have not yet been delivered? If so that's worse than the Ford GT debacle

I thought about it as well. One would assume every one of them has been delivered, but you do see the occasional one on car sales that still has barely any kilometres on them and I would have thought the OP probably bought one like that and the pre-delivery would be in reference to him receiving it. I dunno. The phrasing of everything isn't quite right.

[TRD 269]

Pre-Service (75000km) Test drive is when it happened. I'm not a mechanic but the ones I've spoken to have never taken a car in for a service on a pre-service test drive, unless a customer is trying to show them a problem. this pre-service test drive makes me even more suspicious that the bloke was joy riding it like it was stolen

[Steven]

Pre-Service (75000km) Test drive is when it happened. I'm not a mechanic but the ones I've spoken to have never taken a car in for a service on a pre-service test drive, unless a customer is trying to show them a problem. this pre-service test drive makes me even more suspicious that the bloke was joy riding it like it was stolen

I guess that's exactly why we were confused - as far as I know there is no such thing as a "pre-service" test drive unless they're trying to replicate a problem in order to properly diagnose it.

So what has been the dealers reaction to this and proposed solution? At 75k in a car that is no longer produced, you have buckleys of getting a new TRD which in many ways is a shame; and warranty/liability laws mean the dealership is quite within its rights to just rebuild the engine rather than replace it with a new one (which REALLY sucks because an engine rebuilt by the cheapest bidder is likely to have the long term reliability as chinese knockoff whatever)

[CHA54]

If it did a piston and rod, the block will be damaged. So it will get a short motor as a minimum if the head isn't damaged. If the heads damaged too then it may be more economical for the dealer to put a new long motor into it.

When the TRD's were first released, one did a rod. It was one of the silver toyota demo cars that was used for the tech training, press and customer drive days. It was broken eventually by a salesguy basically thrashing it and spending extended periods bouncing off the rev limiter. After that one the ECU recall was done to change the mapping slightly

Edited September 19, 2010 by CHA54

[TRD 269]

Toyota has agreed on a new motor, i have an app on Monday arvo with the dealer principal to find out exactly what they are going to replace and with what sort of warranty, the gearbox is my concern that they wont be changing it. if there was the possibility of a new one, that is what i want but obviously its not an option.

[byw]

Pre-Service (75000km) Test drive is when it happened. I'm not a mechanic but the ones I've spoken to have never taken a car in for a service on a pre-service test drive, unless a customer is trying to show them a problem. this pre-service test drive makes me even more suspicious that the bloke was joy riding it like it was stolen

Would you care naming the dealer? I have had my TRD taken for an 80km "test drive" when I booked my car in for a leak in the boot! This particular dealer is in the Morley area ;). I would never take my TRD back there again!

[TRD 269]

Pre-Service (75000km) Test drive is when it happened. I'm not a mechanic but the ones I've spoken to have never taken a car in for a service on a pre-service test drive, unless a customer is trying to show them a problem. this pre-service test drive makes me even more suspicious that the bloke was joy riding it like it was stolen

Would you care naming the dealer? I have had my TRD taken for an 80km "test drive" when I booked my car in for a leak in the boot! This particular dealer is in the Morley area . I would never take my TRD back there again!

i would love to tell you but my missus works there and we may still end up in court over it. the Punk was sacked over it so i am comfortable that this sort of thing wont be happening at that dealer for some time. Its bound to happen at any 1 of the Toyota dealerships as there are not many TRDs, 537 AUS wide and every young punk Toyota mechanic wants to take the most powerful Toyota for a strap.

[byw]

Pre-Service (75000km) Test drive is when it happened. I'm not a mechanic but the ones I've spoken to have never taken a car in for a service on a pre-service test drive, unless a customer is trying to show them a problem. this pre-service test drive makes me even more suspicious that the bloke was joy riding it like it was stolen

Would you care naming the dealer? I have had my TRD taken for an 80km "test drive" when I booked my car in for a leak in the boot! This particular dealer is in the Morley area . I would never take my TRD back there again!

i would love to tell you but my missus works there and we may still end up in court over it. the Punk was sacked over it so i am comfortable that this sort of thing wont be happening at that dealer for some time. Its bound to happen at any 1 of the Toyota dealerships as there are not many TRDs, 537 AUS wide and every young punk Toyota mechanic wants to take the most powerful Toyota for a strap.

No probs.. I understand your situation and hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction as soon as possible. Good luck and let us know the outcome.

[Speedz]

If they break it they have to fix it, they already admitted guilt by letting go the apprentice who wrecked your motor...

good luck with it and please keep us up to date... :D

[eviltwin]

Thats got to leave a really nasty taste in you mouth , i hate the idea of someone i don't know even being in my car with me! To cause that sort of internal damage you have to be clueless, careless and all of the other names under the sun!

[TRD 269]

Thats got to leave a really nasty taste in you mouth , i hate the idea of someone i don't know even being in my car with me! To cause that sort of internal damage you have to be clueless, careless and all of the other names under the sun!

I'm hearing you there, my TRD is like a child to me, i don't let it out of my sight, when i do i would walk around it on return to make sure the paint hasn't faded from someone even looking at it to closely.

yep the feeling Ive had for 2 weeks since it happened, i couldn't explain how i feel, very mixed.

[Silver-Aurion]

Thats got to leave a really nasty taste in you mouth , i hate the idea of someone i don't know even being in my car with me! To cause that sort of internal damage you have to be clueless, careless and all of the other names under the sun!

I'm hearing you there, my TRD is like a child to me, i don't let it out of my sight, when i do i would walk around it on return to make sure the paint hasn't faded from someone even looking at it to closely.

yep the feeling Ive had for 2 weeks since it happened, i couldn't explain how i feel, very mixed.

All the best man. :(

[mmm_sx6]

Thats got to leave a really nasty taste in you mouth , i hate the idea of someone i don't know even being in my car with me! To cause that sort of internal damage you have to be clueless, careless and all of the other names under the sun!

I'm hearing you there, my TRD is like a child to me, i don't let it out of my sight, when i do i would walk around it on return to make sure the paint hasn't faded from someone even looking at it to closely.

yep the feeling Ive had for 2 weeks since it happened, i couldn't explain how i feel, very mixed.

Dam sorry to hear! I know what u mean about ur car as a baby :'(

Good luck!

[DJKOR]

I can understand the feeling of getting a repaired TRD back where it isn't the same as when you started off with it. Same goes with knowing that someone else has thrashed it without you knowing how. It's just like something isn't quite right anymore.

I guess one way you could look at it though is that you mentioned that you took it in for the 75,000km service right? Well in that case, if the engine was damaged to the point that they will replace it, at least you are now getting a newer engine. Still doesn't feel quite right, but just trying to think positive.

My TRD is now going to be serviced solely by me now (or specialists which I can trust for those things I can't do), so it feels good in a way to have a bit more control over it now.

[450HP/tonne]

I have had my TRD engine blown up by a punk apprentice taking it for a "pre" test drive and I really find it hard to figure out what the hell he was doing or done to have broken a con rod and shatter a piston.

Did you ask the dealer to check for "brake shudder and wheel wobble"?

My questions are;

1. Has anyone heard of or had an engine failure with one of these motors?

Yes I have heard of it happen, but hoping not to have it happen to me.

2. With that type of damage going on in the motor, would i be looking at damage being caused to the gearbox or anything else?

The transmission does not share 'bodily fluids' with the engine, so is safe from debris (I saw photos of your engine torn down - ouch!). Also, torque converters are fluid couplings, so any sudden change in speed from the engine can be damped and prevent mechanical damage in the transmission.

[Silver-Aurion]

I have had my TRD engine blown up by a punk apprentice taking it for a "pre" test drive and I really find it hard to figure out what the hell he was doing or done to have broken a con rod and shatter a piston.

Did you ask the dealer to check for "brake shudder and wheel wobble"?

My questions are;

1. Has anyone heard of or had an engine failure with one of these motors?

Yes I have heard of it happen, but hoping not to have it happen to me.

2. With that type of damage going on in the motor, would i be looking at damage being caused to the gearbox or anything else?

(I saw photos of your engine torn down - ouch!).

Where? Would love to have a look.

[450HP/tonne]

Where? Would love to have a look.

At work, so I don't have a copy I can share.

Piston #1 was in 2 larger pieces, 6 small pieces and hundreds of tiny pieces in the sump with the rings.

[conroe]

Toyota has agreed on a new motor, i have an app on Monday arvo with the dealer principal to find out exactly what they are going to replace and with what sort of warranty, the gearbox is my concern that they wont be changing it. if there was the possibility of a new one, that is what i want but obviously its not an option.

Just make sure it is done by the real pro, not by a bunch of kids who are still in their first year of apprentice.

Like was in my case, where you can really tell the sort of people that are hired by the dealer to do the work, by the quality or lack of it, when it comes to the re assembling of the parts that's been removed.

A friend who used to work for a Toyota dealer explained, most of the workers are just made up of apprentices, when it comes to changing oil, oil filter etc they're fine but get them to do anything other than the standard routine job and they stuff up.