Different fuels for Aurion... What do you use ?

[pegaxs]

Just a quick question about what fuels people run in their car and how it affects mileage, driveability and price...

I just got to wondering about this tonight as i was driving home from work. I was down to "1km" left on the display. In the car i had a fuel docket for coles/shell. "I know!!" i said as i was driving home, "I will fill the car on the way home." Almost a give in with 1km left showing and the amber light on the dash blinking away... (well, not really blinking, i added that for dramatic effect...)

When i got into the servo i noticed that E10 (10% ethanol fuel) was about 3cents/lt cheaper. Added to that was my 4cent discount voucher and i bought a bottle of water because i was parched and was part of the reason to pull in anyway, i got another 2 cents off a litre. I remember from the first time i filled the car that it has a yellow sticker with "E10 ok for use in this vehicle" I thought i would give that a go. I evened up filling my car for 88.9 cents/lt. Last time i put fuel in a car for that price was pre-iraq invasion. Last tank of fuel i put in i used it up about 10.9lt/100km according to the display. Which makes sense, as i did 500km from about 55lt of fuel.

So this begs some questions and some curisoty. What fuel does everyone else run here ? I like the idea of E10, as it has a few benefits. Environmental issues, as ethanol is made from sugarcane, thus reducing some of our reliance on oil. It's usually higher octane rating then standard fuel. Ethanol is what most revheads put in their car in the form of "Zoom Boost 110% After Burner Jet Rocket Fuel Race Additive." (name changed to protect innocent products. Ironically, Ethanol is cheaper to buy as what we call "metho" then as soopa boosta octane 112% race juice.) And the cost saving over normal, or so be it, premium unleaded.

I for one will give it a go. If the car runs ok on it, then ill stick to it. If it starts to run like rubbish, or i get 100km less a tank, ill switch back to regular fuels.

One other question... What size is the fuel tank on the Aurion ? I had a problem last year at a fuel station where i fueled up at and they claimed i put 86 litres in a car that only had a 57 litre tank. I said no to paying any more then 57 litres, they said i put in 86lt. I told them that it would not hold that much and asked them to come and look to see i had no bottles in the car. I got a 2lt jug and put what it said was 1lt on the pump display and the pump put out about 700ml. I said how about you retract what you said and i will pay for 57lt, they said you pay for 86. i said i will call consumer affairs and every rubbish TV show i can think of if they dont get it calibrated in a week, they said pay for 57lt and they will get it calibrated as soon as. i went back a week later and made sure, and they had. They had done the calibrations :)

[Ascendant Rice]

i dont have an Aurion but wat i do notice with my rolla is when it has e10 in it it goes like rubbish. i recently put in mobil synergy 98 octane and the performance is alot better then regular 91 RON and E10.

~william

[DJKOR]

On the ethanol discussion, there was some of that going around in the Kluger forum:

E10 Unleaded?

As well, it led to this article:

False economy: E10 fuel isn't cheaper or greener - National - BrisbaneTimes

Generally, if you use it and you are satisfied, then personal preference I guess. I have had bad experiences in the past with ethanol fuel (car not starting, running rough, etc), so I will never allow myself to use it in the Aurion. The Aurion is built to permit its use, but that's not enough for me. Tests have found that percentages of ethanol above 10% causes damage to engines, so you would think that even though 10% isn't going to do damage, it had to be doing something wearing.

As for the type of fuel used, you did do a search right? Should have revived another thread instead of creating a new one:

Fuel test today

Best fuel for our Aurion(s)

Best Fuel for Aurion's

I myself prefer to use Caltex Vortex 95 at the minimum. Now that fuel is cheap, I've stepped up to Vortex 98 (which I only really reserved for when I had minimal expenses), but I am going to keep using it since I have finished study and am able to work more, thus earn more. Personally, I haven't felt much difference between 91, 95, and 98 RON, but I feel better when running at least 95 RON. Same goes for the 98.

The fuel tank on the Aurion is a 70 litre tank, I have personally filled 68 litres maximum on mine, and that was after the gauge reaching empty and driving 97km after cruising range said 0km.

[e240]

^^ Agreed - E10 = False economy

I usually pump 91 or 95, whichever is easily available or tickles my fancy at the time. I don't really find a difference.

At the risk of going off topic, the alternative fuel source is just bull****. These alternatives fuels (excluding nuclear) can only provide for less than 3% of our energy needs. Unless you sacrifice food production and just produce fuels...LOL...

The only real alternative to fossil fuels now is Nuclear.

I'm waiting for the greenies to demonstrate on the Climate change plan so I can bloody throw eggs at those blind fools.

[tekkyy]

I just use unleaded

Caltex (for Woolworths dockets)

even Drive trashed E10 too

False economy: fuel types compared

Richard Blackburn, drive.com.au, December 13, 2008

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleD...ArticleID=59627

Edited December 17, 2008 by tekkyy

[pegaxs]

In my post, i wasnt asking what fuel is best to run, it was more of a curiosity on what people were running. Yes i looked at some of the other threads, but i didnt feel it necessary to revive a thread for what i wanted to talk about. I wasnt looking for any debate on different fuels. Some say its bad, some says its good. For every negative review, there is a positive review. Who do you believe ?

Anyway... sorry for using up all this bandwidth with this "rehashed" thread... i will be sure to ask permission before i post anything again....

[DJKOR]

In my post, i wasnt asking what fuel is best to run, it was more of a curiosity on what people were running. Yes i looked at some of the other threads, but i didnt feel it necessary to revive a thread for what i wanted to talk about. I wasnt looking for any debate on different fuels. Some say its bad, some says its good. For every negative review, there is a positive review. Who do you believe ?

Anyway... sorry for using up all this bandwidth with this "rehashed" thread... i will be sure to ask permission before i post anything again....

All good. I wasn't trying to have a go at you or anything. I just don't want to see this forum turning into the Toyota Nation forum. If you don't know what I'm talking about, go here and look for threads about "HID's" for starters.

Being the type of forum this is where a lot of us are trying to get as much out of the Aurion as simply as possible, you would find a large majority of us are running on Premium Unleaded (95 RON) or greater. With 95 RON or greater, the Aurion will then push 204kW. That is enough to sway most of us to using that fuel, even if the gain is not significant. The difference between 95 and 98 is debatable, and for the purposes of this argument, it should be asked whether the fuel you use is e10 unleaded, unleaded, or premium.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of us are using premium, with those that are concerned about saving as much as possible using unleaded. What you should have done is start a poll with this thread to gain more usable answers for your curiosity.

[ASG14]

Where I live we ONLY have E10 gas, and this **** is AWFUL! When I fill up on my trips in states several hours away, I can get a 10-20% better gas mileage.....and the price of the gas is the same.

[cranky]

i filled up 1/2 a tank of e10 and had 1/2 a tank of caltex 91. i got 9.6lt/100 or 542kms for 52 litres, urban driving.

[TRD 110]

No choice really (TRD), premium or PING

In terms of brand loyalty, generally Mobil whenever I can - but the local servo on the way home from work is a Shell so the Optimax (or whatever ridiculous name they call it now) seems to be getting my hard earned dollars more often than not lately.

Personally I've never used the Ethanol substitutes, no real scientific reasons to back up my boycot - just not a fan.

Edited December 17, 2008 by TRD 110

[boxerboy]

I'm undecided.

I was using the 91 ron exclusively, but then was persuaded by previous thread discussion to try the higher octane stuff. Lucky for me the prices dropped! I'm using the 98 ron now, but will need to do a casual 600+ k run in mid Jan to provide some comparison in economy.

Here's an excerpt from the Drive article.

Drive put the three fuels to the test, driving three identical Toyota Camrys more than 2000 kilometres in a range of conditions to see which fuel drives your dollar further.

The E10-fuelled Camry in the test cost $276.55 to run, while the regular unleaded version cost $271.56 and the premium unleaded fuel version, which cost, on average, 15 cents a litre more than E10, cost $285.54.

The car running on premium unleaded consumed 9.06 litres/ 100km, compared with 9.41L/100km for the regular unleaded car and 9.81 litres for the E10 vehicle.

The test-drive route covered a range of conditions, from freeway driving to off-peak and peak-hour city driving. City driving exposed E10's efficiency shortcomings more than

almost as expensive as using premium unleaded, despite the huge gap in pump prices. In the700 kilometres of city driving, our E10 Camry used almost 10 litres more fuel than our premium-fuel car.

The comparative fuel bills for the three cars were: E10, $105; premium, $105.91; and regular unleaded, $100.33.

E10 doesn't get much support there hey!

[p_square]

Slightly off topic here but nonetheless about fuel octane rating, if your vehicle parked in the garage for a long time the fuel octane would drop, so if you are heading for a holiday this X'mas/NY leaving your car home, I would suggest go for either 95 or 98.

Merry X'mas everyone and a safe holiday to you all.

[pegaxs]

Slightly off topic here but nonetheless about fuel octane rating, if your vehicle parked in the garage for a long time the fuel octane would drop, so if you are heading for a holiday this X'mas/NY leaving your car home, I would suggest go for either 95 or 98.

Merry X'mas everyone and a safe holiday to you all.

I dont want to be the antagonist here, but that is simply not true... unless you are going on holidays for like a year. Even then i doubt it would drop by enough to be noticeable by average driving. Fuel systems on modern cars are sealed. This is for a few reasons, namely one being pollution from escaping hydrocarbons (that cool mirage vapour look you get from the top of fresh poured fuel...) and the other is for water contamination. I would be willing to bet that the drop in octane rating over a 4 week christmas/new year break while you went on walk about or public transport would be so negligible that even putting the car on a dyno would have trouble picking up any discernible difference.

Octane rating is used as a measure of fuels ability to resist "knock" Since nearly every modern car built with fuel injection (do they make cars still without fuel injection ?) will have knock sensors to combat this. Knock sensors are like microphones (for want of a better analogy) that listen to the cars engine for these "knocks". When they they pick up these knocks in the engine, they tell the ECU, which in turn retards ignition timing.

Knock in engines is affected by a few different factors. The foremost is compression. The higher the compression of an engine, the higher the chances of engine knock. ?ie: TRD Aurion with supercharger would have a higher combustion compression ratio at full boost then your average Aurion. Other things that can affect knock is poor fuel and carbon on the pistons.

On a side note, standard unleaded petrol has a RON of about 87/89, premium unleaded is around 92 to 98 (depends on what you buy and where.) Ethanol on its own is 116 (hence its use in octane boosta soopa race juice packets sold at your local auto shop.)

[DJKOR]

Yeah, pegaxs is right in his statement. You will only reduce the octane rating in that short of a time period if you are allowing your fuel to evaporate. In simple words like Northy mentioned to me one night, when you open the tank of fuel and here that hiss... that's the octane. Like pegaxs said, the fuel tank cars are sealed and that prevents this evaporation.

... do they make cars still without fuel injection ?

I was actually surprised (even a little excited down there) when I read about the Pontiac G8 GXP the other week. They offer an upgrade to an LSX454 engine... well they don't make the cars from factory like that, but it can be bought as a crate engine for use in it. It is a 7.4L naturally aspirated carbureted, 476kW engine pushing 813Nm. Read about the engine here. Damn that is hot. My bad for steering off track, I got a little excited on the subject.

[Adrian]

Q: Do Octane levels vary in E10 fuels ? I usually use and E10 thats apparently at 95 octane and usually get between 7.0 and 10lt/100km ?

I do hear of the usual argument that it's bad for the engine but how long do people keep thier cars, surely some of the storys that I hear on this forum people abuse thier cars more than E10 does. I do agree my car runs great/better on Caltex 95 and do run it on trips 4 sure.

Anyway, I find that I get better eco for 95.E10 than standard 91 Octane.

[pegaxs]

Q: Do Octane levels vary in E10 fuels ? I usually use and E10 thats apparently at 95 octane and usually get between 7.0 and 10lt/100km ?

I do hear of the usual argument that it's bad for the engine but how long do people keep thier cars, surely some of the storys that I hear on this forum people abuse thier cars more than E10 does. I do agree my car runs great/better on Caltex 95 and do run it on trips 4 sure.

Anyway, I find that I get better eco for 95.E10 than standard 91 Octane.

In answer to the question, yes, it will vary. It would depend on where you buy it, who you buy it from and how it is stored and for how long it is stored. E10 is usually higher in octane due to being blended with ethanol which has an octane rating of 116. The only problem with ethanol is that it takes a lot more energy to burn it. Hence the reason they say with older cars to not run it as they do not have the compression ratio required.

As for engine damage.. its utter and pure baloney. If you run a 50cc whipper snipper or a 110cc lawn mower.. i probably would not consider running it. 2 strokes dont like it because they ping their heads off at the best of times and 4 stroke lawn mowers dont offer much in the way of knock sensors and retarded timing when they ping. As for it damaging a new engine in a new car, thats utter and pure garbage, especially if an engine and fuel system has been designed for it.

The problem with ethanol is that is is a very effective cleaning agent. Even more so then petrol. It will pick up any piece of grime or sludge in your tank or fuel lines and run it down to the injectors. Another reason they say not to use it in old cars. The cleaning effect and the hoses being 15 years old are not that good and not built to withstand ethanol being pumped through them. As for engine damage, add that to the "garbage" file. What it can do in older cars is wash all the carbon built up over 15 years of running out of places like behind piston rings. This makes them loose. Basically the same effect as never changing your oil for 100,000km, and then going out and buying diesel engine oil to run through it... carbon... gone, rings loose... big smoke... The damage was done long before ethanol got there... ethanol just pulled the blanket off and exposed it.

I kind of get sick of reading all these web sites that say "it damages your engine!" then dont back it up with any proof or examples. Yes it can, but then again, so can any fuel. More damage is done to an engine when it is cold and you turn the key to start it, back it out the drive way and tear down the street 30 seconds later... dont see any websites dedicated to that damage ?

So far out of this tank doing the same drive to work every day i have averaged 8.8lt/100km on E10... compare this with standard unleaded where i averaged 10.9lt/100km over the same trip... this tank isnt finished yet, so only time will tell... last tank on standard doing this same drive every day was 500km from 56lt.

[Adrian]

Each to thier own. I don't use E10/95 all the time, but I find it a good alternative as in my tests it has better economy than standard/91.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Adrian

[Vijith555]

I have been switching between 91 and 98 the last few times because I was testing which feels better and gives more mileage. Surprisingly whenever i put 98, not only the car is smooth but the avg consumption goes down compared to 91. Like i get more mileage out of 98 than the 91 and when i say more its by a big margin. So i decided i stick to 98 at all times and the minimum 95 nothing less :)

[Adamsy]

BP 98 Ultimate all the way for me thanks :)

[Pah]

I use Shell standard unleaded 91ron and average 10lt/100klm driving around the Central Coast and around 8.5lt/100klm on trips

[Noodle Boy]

i use Mobil 98 most of the time since its close to my house. i tend to use BP Ultimate as well if possible.

[Aloysius]

When i got the Presara 3 years ago I ran 91.

I then tried 95 and found it cheaper in terms of $ / k

I then changed up to 98 and found increased power and therefore lower fuel use at the same speeds.

For me, and most of my K's are on the highway, the best and cheapest fuel is 98 octane.

Highway speeds are 107 k in 100 zones and 117 in 110 zones, mostly cruise controlled.

Edited November 3, 2010 by Aloysius

[DJKOR]

fuel miser was really onto something when he made his comments with all this. Realistically, for all the people here that are saying one particular fuel gives them better economy, how accurately can you actually prove that. With the amount of variation in the figures between different types of fuels, it could easily be a number of other factors contributing to the different fuel consumptions... not to mention the accuracy of the measurements.

On top of that, those that say they can 'feel' the improved response and/or power when running 95/98... can you really prove it?

[Silver-Aurion]

On top of that, those that say they can 'feel' the improved response and/or power when running 95/98... can you really prove it?

Yes, I put my foot down further and all of a sudden the car is faster.

[czaja74]

I actually observed acceleration and general responsiveness while driving to and from work on daily basis. Then I asked my wife to put any fuel she wanted from BP without telling me. After 3 refuels she told me when she used what petrol. I could definitely tell the difference between fuels. On 98 the feels more alive.