urgent help! red light camera problem!

[flyeah]

I received a penalty notice saying I was breaking a red light camera.

But I remember I only crossed the intersection when the light was yellow!

I put my images of the offence here together with a sample image I searched on internet showing how the red light camera should work:

anybody knows should I argue with State Debt recovery office? and what can I say?

Edited February 6, 2010 by flyeah

[DJKOR]

That one is going to be a hard one to dispute I reckon. Even if the front of your car crossed the line when the light was yellow, the bulk of the car must have crossed the line (therefore leaving the sensor on the road) once the light turned red, hence tripping the camera.

Their simple dispute would be that if the light was red by the time your car was at the position shown in the first photo, you would have had more than enough time/space to react to the yellow light to bring your car to a stop safely.

The way it's going to play out if you argue it is that if you say it was yellow when you crossed the stop line, they will just say that it is clearly red in the photo. It's your word against theirs and their photo.

[httttt]

If you are going to dispute this I think this is the sort of resistance you should expect:

It looks like your tyres are completely over the lines. But having said that the rear of the car looks to be on or behind the line.

I think you would have a case if you had cars behind you, but you didn't so stopping would not have caused an accident.

There are a lot of parked cars a head and a pedestrian, this looks like a high traffic area and I would guess the speed limit is 50. Stopping times at 50 are quite fast and safe when it isn't raining.

Taking all that into account you should have had ample time to stop.

p.s. this is more suitable in the general section.

[Steven]

which state are you from?

If QLD, going through an Amber light (provided you should have easily been able to stop for it) and going through a red light carry the exact same penalty.

You can fight it, but they can just immediately simplify matters but amending the charge, which leaves you exactly where you currently are.

Face it mate, you obviously left it too late. Man up and accept it.

[1stKill]

+1 on all the above...and as Steven said,might just have to wear this one.

[David the Viking]

+2 The photos clearly show you going through a red light. Pay the fine and wear the points!

An AMBER light does not mean SPEED UP it means PREPARE to STOP!

[trentmeyer23]

Have a look at how many people here think that you are guilty of the offence, do you honestly think you will get off? Just cop it, and slow down when it turns amber.

[KoolMoeDee]

Sorry to hear you got done buddy.

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do other then argue the fine. But if it went to court i believe they would win due to the evidence they have in there possession.

So it looks like you will have to pay the fine.

If you dont end up having to pay the fine, please let us know how you got out of it.

Thanks

[DJKOR]

... And this is why when I was in Sydney the other week, if I approached a set of lights with a red light camera, I was very cautious.

[tekkyy]

We generally stop behind the 1st line at the lights.

Which of the 3 lines does the law refer to for running a red light?

Nothing in the photos show the Aurion crossing the 1st or 2nd line after the lights went red.

Its a close call for the 3rd line.

So amber penalty and road safety aside, I don't know why everyone is so certain and so harsh to him.

They really need to upgrade or readjust those cameras for shocking shutter lag or impotent technican respectively.

The 1st photo should have been taken before he touched the line the law refers to.

The road sensors in the photos are positioned clearly away from the 1st line.

[KevO]

Think you might have to cop this one on the chin (like what the others have said).

I doubt there's any chance of you winning.

Seeing that there's already cars banked up ahead, you should have stopped at the lights instead of forcing yourself across.

EDIT: a quick question (sorry to steal thread)... What if I cross the lines but don't actually cross the intersection? Do I get the same penalty ?

Edited February 7, 2010 by KevO

[VF-X]

When the traffic light was yellow, it's ok if u were over the line. But when it turned red, if there was not enough space to proceed, u should stay where u are or if possible, reverse a bit, to avoid intersection-block.

The way I interpret this, U were on the line, waiting, when the lights was on yellow going to red. And on red, it's still queing..Knowing there wasn't enough space, you should've reversed considering there was no car at all behind you (IF you reverse at this point, there's a solid chance u could win). Problem: Instead, you crossed the line even after it turned red. Sorry, I have to agree with majority of the people here. Face the fine.

... And this is why when I was in Sydney the other week, if I approached a set of lights with a red light camera, I was very cautious.

How did you find out whether the lights have cameras or not? I know sounds like a stupid question, of course it'll have cameras somewhere around it.. *Duh*.

I mean, U can't really pay attention to evry lights and scan around the areas. Even sometimes the cameras aren't meant for the path you were in.

EDIT: a quick question (sorry to steal thread)... What if I cross the lines but don't actually cross the intersection? Do I get the same penalty ?

In most cases, If u tried to reverse to avoid the blocking, u'r fine. I reckon the line is only a rough guide of where you should stop. exceeding it by a 'reasonable' amount wouldn't get you any penalty, given under certain circumstances.

Edited February 7, 2010 by VF-X

[DJKOR]

... And this is why when I was in Sydney the other week, if I approached a set of lights with a red light camera, I was very cautious.

How did you find out whether the lights have cameras or not? I know sounds like a stupid question, of course it'll have cameras somewhere around it.. *Duh*.

I mean, U can't really pay attention to evry lights and scan around the areas. Even sometimes the cameras aren't meant for the path you were in.

It's called being observant. It's pretty hard not to see a red light camera... especially the bulky a** ones in Sydney. Everybody is different, but I can spot these things.

EDIT: a quick question (sorry to steal thread)... What if I cross the lines but don't actually cross the intersection? Do I get the same penalty ?

In most cases, If u tried to reverse to avoid the blocking, u'r fine. I reckon the line is only a rough guide of where you should stop. exceeding it by a 'reasonable' amount wouldn't get you any penalty, given under certain circumstances.

Good to see you really read your road rules. The white line is called a stop line for a reason. For the Queensland side of things, they even wrote this out to make sure it is known:

WHY DID I RECEIVE A RED LIGHT CAMERA INFRINGEMENT NOTICE WHEN I STOPPED OVER THE WHITE STOP LINE? I DID NOT PROCEED THROUGH THE INTERSECTION.

Legislation states that you are required to stop as near as possible to but before reaching the white stop line. If you cross the white stop line after the traffic light has turned red then you commit a breach of the regulation. (Section 56 of the Transport Operations (Road Use Management Road Rules) Regulation 1999 refers.)

I STOPPED OVER THE STOP LINE, BUT I REVERSED BACK.

Once your vehicle has proceeded over the stop line on a red light, you have committed a breach of the regulation, irrespective of whether you reversed your vehicle back to a position prior to the stop line. (Section 56 of the Transport Operations (Road Use Management Road Rules) Regulation 1999 refers.)

[KevO]

Thanks djkor and vfx for clarifying that.

Most or if not all traffic lights that have a camera usually have some sort of signage before it.

They also now have signs with 'safety camera ahead'... meaning that it's both a red and speed camera.

[DJKOR]

Most or if not all traffic lights that have a camera usually have some sort of signage before it.

They also now have signs with 'safety camera ahead'... meaning that it's both a red and speed camera.

Plus... when you don't have many points on your licence, you tend to think about these things a little more than usual, signed or not.*

Plus NSW and VIC seem to be a bit stricter on the road rules.

Plus I can't afford to be banned from driving in NSW anytime this year.

And you just gotta be careful these days cause one of these could be pulling you over... well for us QLD drivers:

[boxerboy]

Here in Victoria, if your record is good and you're not a repeat offender, it's permissible to write to Snr. Sgt. Ritchie and ask for a ticket to be considered for leniency. He is the head of traffic infringements or some such department, and has the ability to waive some fines.

The Vicroads website even tells you the guidelines to do this. Maybe other states have a similar protocol available?

[Silver-Aurion]

Wow, that is very sneaky DJKOR. So glad its not that bad in Victoria.

[boxerboy]

In Vic I've seen SS commodores with all the gear.

There are motorcycles with video on the front to follow and record.

There are speed sensors set into kerbs and disguised cameras in poles...not on top of poles.

I'm sure there's more ..

How about 2.6 tickets a minute here in Vic. That was in the Hun yesterday

2.6 tickets a minute.

They're out to stop speeding, and the government likes the money. They're happy to be sneaky about it.

[imposter]

I suggest disputing it, what is the worst that can happen. Try your luck, you never really know with these things.

[DreadAngel]

Sydney has QLD beat, impounded cars are used as undercover... T_T

Edited February 7, 2010 by DreadAngel

[VF-X]

Thanks djkor and vfx for clarifying that.

The rule that DJKOR mention is the most valid one, just like when people get L plate for the first time. But these days, even police stretch the 'limit' as long as it's reasonable. Lots of the cases here in NSW, especially in the city during weekend.

I suggest disputing it, what is the worst that can happen. Try your luck, you never really know with these things.

+1

Can't really go worse.. Try your luck..

[KevO]

Sydney has QLD beat, impounded cars are used as undercover... T_T

Don't forget they slap on P plates too. Followed a Fluro FPV Pursuit Ute with p plates on the back. After a while driving behind it, i noticed the red and blue lights in the back window and chunky equipment on the dash.

<_<

[boleh]

How much was the fine & demerit pts?

[VF-X]

How much was the fine & demerit pts?

In NSW, I think it's 3 D-points and a fine of around 330s.

[ryoohki]

Theres also a new type of red light camera getting installed in NSW that also picks up speeders besides just taking red light pictures.